Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30539 Replies
I'm failing to understand your point. Are you insinuating Israelis raided the convoy? Are you suggesting Hamas doesn't have the aid now?
Did you read the article? Criminal gangs take the food and are charging outrageous prices; it is not in Hamas hands. Israel allowing this is part of the obvious plan to make Gaza unlivable.
I am curious what trollson proposes the USA and others should have done not to "allow" a theocracy to be established in Iran
Not put the Shah back in power in 1954.
USA has no business dictating how other countries govern themselves.
lots of info out today about the Israel/ISIS collaboration on looting aid trucks
and finally
say the line Bart...
Spoiler
every accusation....
Can anyone read? it was 2 distincts things, the coup and then allowing theocracy (which came more than 25 years after the coup).
You can hate the 1953 coup (which helped iranians and the west immensely for decades) as much as you want, but the claim was "not allowing theocracy" (1979 revolution).
How exactly not to allow the theocracy to get installed in 1979?
It's a mistaken question. You can't undo the mess. The only good solution is to avoid the mess wherever possible. So dont **** up countries is the only good plan.
Once you have the mess there's not much that can be done other than keep reaching out and wait. The hardest thing of all is to wait.
Then when an opportunity arises for a country to rejoin the international community then grab it hard.
The theocracy proceeds from the 1953 coup. Iran's shot at democracy was destroyed by the coup. In its place the Shah's dictatorship was established. The Shah efficiently stifled criticism from everywhere except the mosque. As Iranians became increasingly dissatisfied with the Shah, their anger was channeled most successfully by the Islamicists. The secular opponents of the Shah were in dungeons.
See Stephen Kinzer's book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror.
The theocracy proceeds from the coup. Iran's shot at democracy was destroyed by the coup. In its place the Shah's dictatorship was established. The Shah efficiently stifled criticism from everywhere except the mosque. As Iranians became increasingly dissatisfied with the Shah, there anger was channeled most successfully by the Islamicists. The secular opponents of the Shah were in dungeons.
See Stephen Kinzer's book, All the Shah's Men: An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror.
No lol , it happened 26 years later in a completly different world scenario, one which for example had arab oil embargo as a more recent event, bretton woods gone, big changes in the geopolitical order, and it's quite absurd to claim a revolution happening 26 years later can be ascribed to the coup.
And anyway so, there were ways to avoid the theocracy, we should have told the shah to kill and imprison the islamists leaders as soon as they started threatening him, and we could have helped him do so.
luciom is right. We could have supported a brutal dictator far more.
NYT claimed to have evidence but weren’t willing to publish any of it. I’m sure the truth is somewhere in the middle. The IDF is brutal and for sure has some bad actors, and on the other hand Hamas is undoubtedly using child soldiers.
Hamas is undoubtedly using child soldiers
and yet there has been no evidence of it at all. not even rumors.
Sounds like these gangs rose to prominence after Israel significantly weakened Hamas and that Hamas is still stealing the aid in areas where they still hold influence. Do you guys want the IDF to start gunning them down? It’s likely they aren’t fighting them because they are opposing factions to Hamas and therefore not really Israel’s enemy atm.
No lol , it happened 26 years later in a completly different world scenario, one which for example had arab oil embargo as a more recent event, bretton woods gone, big changes in the geopolitical order, and it's quite absurd to claim a revolution happening 26 years later can be ascribed to the coup.
And anyway so, there were ways to avoid the theocracy, we should have told the shah to kill and imprison the islamists leaders as soon as they started threatening him, and we could have helped him do
Not really. A lot of the things happening in Israel / Palestine now are fallout from events that occurred years ago.
bill haywood posted one a while back where he was like look at these terrible israelis murdering innocent children, and two seconds into the clip they are running around shooting with their ak47s
Your posting in this thread makes me ask for a link to that please.
The theocracy proceeds from the 1953 coup. Iran's shot at democracy was destroyed by the coup.
Not exactly, because Mosaddegh suspended democracy. And the CIA probably took too much credit for a coup carried out by Iranians. Unfortunately the CIA and the American establishment seem to have believed their own legend, and got a taste for interfering in other countries (see Eisenhower ordering Lumumba's assassination in the Congo, except the CIA officer on the ground refused the order as unlawful and the Belgian secret service did it instead, and then of course there was South Vietnam and Chile and Iraq). It has seldom worked out all that well, though of course South Korea owes its existence to US intervention (authorised by the UN under UNSCRs 82 and 84 only because the Soviets were boycotting the Security Council in a huff about the UN still recognising the Nationalists rather than the Communists as China's representatives).
it was from the West Bank in the winter iirc.
it is funny that BOIDs continues latching onto that one bit of extremely thinly justified extrajudicial murder and ignores the hundreds of other videos of straightforward murder.
Any democratic government would rule as a state of emergency if facing an existential threat from foreign subversion, but we don't necessarily cease to call them a democracy. But notice I wrote that Mosaddegh was the best shot at democracy, not that it was a democracy, because I recognize it was complex.
Are you suggesting the Shah offered more hope for democracy than the Majlis?
right it was an execution.
