Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
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30518 Replies
Yup , one of the dummest comments ever .
Look at Russia with Crimea and the new territories that will be annexed to Russia .
It’s nothing as well right ?
You a Russian agent or what ?
Israel expanded way more then 1% .
Nice try tho with ridiculous framing by using Middle East territories as a whole .
Stating a fact makes me a Russian agent? What? I didn’t frame anything in a ridiculous manner, you simply can’t read well.
Ironically, you’re the one spouting pro Russian propaganda. More evidence that you and those you’re getting your ideas from are heavily influenced by propaganda.
The same Hamas who slaughtered a bunch of kids at Lollapalooza? No. Until they’re all dead and all memories of prior bad acts are forgotten, this will NEVER end. Ever.
Oh you mentioned slaughtering kids eh? You feel the same way about the Israelis that slaughtered 10s of thousands of kids?
Criticizing Israel military actions without giving any alternative course that would guarantee the fully justified military goals Israel has is antisemitism.
Disagreeing with Israel right to guarantee at any cost it can't be a target of terror attacks is antisemitism.
If a terrorist is assassinated with x collateral damage victims the only possible criticism is that which points to another way which would have guaranteed the death of the terrorist anyway, but with lower collateral damage.
To my kno
There is a level of threat that faces every country and it can never be reduced to zero. Also, using "all costs" is a loaded term because we absolutely have to factor in causalities and further risks and threats and such, amongst so many other factors.
Nobody is trying to say that Palestinians held the deed to every square inch of the area, so I’m not sure why you are twisting my words/illustrations.
Of course there were Jews there, there have always been Jews there. They represented about 32% of the total population in 1948 and most importantly, which is the entire premise of this conversation, cohabitated in peace as a constituent part of the population.
Just as there were Jews in the yellow areas then (and now), there are Palestinians
Buddy, I am simply pointing out that “land theft of Arabs” is a ridiculous statement given the tangible amount of land Israel has occupied over a century.
As I understand it, Israel’s laws function to preserve a Jewish state, not to oppress foreigners. I’m sorry you misunderstand them.
There is a level of threat that faces every country and it can never be reduced to zero. Also, using "all costs" is a loaded term because we absolutely have to factor in causalities and further risks and threats and such, amongst so many other factors.
there isn't a level of organized, transparent, genocidal terrorist threat on the borders facing most countries actually.
A few might be facing similar risks but it's really rare, maybe Taiwan and south Korea are in vaguely similar situations, maybe a few more countries? Ukraine and similar countries under attack of Russia qualify though, and they as well have a moral right to do everything to try to save themselves as well.
Switzerland has approx the same population of Israel, which bordering country is led by political parties that want to genocide all the swiss?
might be loaded for you but the idea is exactly that no amount of collateral damage should make Israel step back from the goal of fully and completely eradicate the threats.
Because if you set a numerical limit, all Hamas and Hez and others have to do is to use more than X human shields and they can get away with literally everything.
no not really in this situation. even if hypothetically or philosophically this could be reasonable in generalized situations, in this specific situation it makes no sense. Israel and the USA are not going to grant human rights to the Palestinians. they arent going to make anything possible. therefore the only way to gain their freedom and dignity is to fight like the Haitians, Algerians, South Africans, Vietnamese, Indians.
You have in this very thread demanded pledges of allegiance to Israel from fellow Jews and you’ve called liberal Jews who do not support the war fake self-hating Jews. It is your own insistence that every Jew is associated with Israel that puts Jews in the diaspora at risk when Israel behaves this poorly. The question is directly related to your own claims.
I've never demanded any pledge. I also didn't say people couldn't protest bibi pre war. Protesting during the war is gross imo. Jews in favor of a 2 state solution and against settlements in the west bank are fine.
I do think every Jew should have a connection to Israel yes. Especially If they had ancestors who lived through the holocaust or a Russian pogrom or anything similar. It makes me sad when jews protest "genocide" when their is no genocide. More babies have been born in Gaza in the past 14 months than people have died .. and that's based on hamas numbers on the deaths. So this would be the only genocide in the history of mankind where the native population grew
no not really in this situation. even if hypothetically or philosophically this could be reasonable in generalized situations, in this specific situation it makes no sense. Israel and the USA are not going to grant human rights to the Palestinians. they arent going to make anything possible. therefore the only way to gain their freedom and dignity is to fight like the Haitians, Algerians, South Africans, Vietnamese, Indians.
Keep stealing your people's aid. Use them as shields. Scream genocide
Sounds like a sane plan
It’s wild to see such condemnation of “hiding among the populace” etc when American independence was won using similar tactics of subversive warfare and hiding among civilians who willingly protected them, and they are lauded as heroes and revolutionaries.
Of course these same Americans then genocided the native population, so… conclusions to be drawn etc
It’s wild to see such condemnation of “hiding among the populace” etc when American independence was won using similar tactics of subversive warfare and hiding among civilians who willingly protected them, and they are lauded as heroes and revolutionaries.
Israel's military HQ is right downtown in a civilian area as well. Every armed force in the modern world has military personnel who live and work among civilians, no one suggests it's okay to slaughter those people --unless they happen to be Arabs.
The United States wouldn't let the Jews from the concentration camps come in the late 1940s. Neither would any Europe country
If Israel wasn't established there might not be Jews today
Read this if you are interested
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/e....
It's not an exaggeration. If the Jewish State was not established, there might be no Jews today
It’s wild to see such condemnation of “hiding among the populace” etc when American independence was won using similar tactics of subversive warfare and hiding among civilians who willingly protected them, and they are lauded as heroes and revolutionaries.
And you didn't hear the revolutionaries saying British was committing genocide if they were hiding among the populace
Israel's military HQ is right downtown in a civilian area as well. Every armed force in the modern world has military personnel who live and work among civilians, no one suggests it's okay to slaughter those people --unless they happen to be Arabs.
Geneva convention allows for strikes there so I don't know where you concocted the "no one suggests it's okay"
Israel's military HQ is right downtown in a civilian area as well. Every armed force in the modern world has military personnel who live and work among civilians, no one suggests it's okay to slaughter those people --unless they happen to be Arabs.
and Israel also claims it is acceptable to hit any member of Hamas including political leaders, bureaucrats, civilian appointees, civil servants, police, garbagemen, state health care, etc.
like, imagine if Hamas or Hezbollah starting taking out Knesset members.
The United States wouldn't let the Jews from the concentration camps come in the late 1940s. Neither would any Europe country
If Israel wasn't established there might not be Jews today
Read this if you are interested
https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/e....
It's not an exaggeration. If the Jewish State was not established, there might be
Do you believe American Jews to be currently at risk of the American government?
It’s wild to see such condemnation of “hiding among the populace” etc when American independence was won using similar tactics of subversive warfare and hiding among civilians who willingly protected them, and they are lauded as heroes and revolutionaries.
I dont condemn Hamas for using their civilians as human shields. I condemn you guys for arguing that this means Israel should just let Hamas win. The international community is mainly to blame for this situation, by setting up such perverse incentive structures where it is rational for Hamas to act this way.
And I think it is an unfortunate but necessary (for the survival of Israel at least) strategy for Israel to not let Hamas using their civilians as human shields to deter them from necessary actions.
I think Israel and Palestine both deserve better leadership
Maybe you have been living under a rock for the last year; but the "American govt" in many blue cities have allowed an appalling level of intimidation, harassment and violence against Jews, that would not be tolerated against any other minority group. And there is no reason to suggest this could not and will not get worse.
If the US wanted to show that Israel wasn't necessary because the US would be a place that stood up to antisemitism, I would say the last year has been a giant failure in this regard.
Cite
