Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33763 Replies
It is exceedingly lame that kelhus talks about the distant past when during almost all that time it was much much much better to be a Jew in a Muslim country than in a Christian one. But, maybe he's a Christian identitarian and is really about the crusades like the secretary of defense.
I was countering Deuce's completely made up history of the Levant. "Being much better to be a Jew than in Europe historically" is a pretty low bar; and doesn't change the fact Arabs have always had an Apartheid society by law (or at least since Islam and Sharia), and Israel for all its warts is more tolerant than the majority of the Arab world.
We also have to keep in mind that Israel has been at war with the Arab world for most of 80 years, and still is fairly tolerant; and very tolerant with Israeli Arabs (which is actually amazing, given their giant potential as a 5th column). Arabs would have zero tolerance under such circumstances, as we saw with the collective punishment and ethnic cleansing of Jews from all of MENA.
Palestinians said they supported Saddam, and Kuwait frog marched 2 million of them right out of the country. And no one even blinked. That tells you all you need to know of Arab tolerance.
I think some people are conflating arabs and muslims in their assessment of past racism in the middle eastern area.
Arabs were i'd say average, it's the Mamluk who were particularly good (for their age standards). Those were non-arab ex-slaves basically.
My basic guess is that simply because mamluks were composed of a lot of different cultures and ethnicities , they were less "racists" (using the label in modern day terms)
‘Anything that moved’: Israel (again) admits mass ‘Hannibal’ killing of own citizens on 7 Oct
The Israeli military has admitted that its air force carried out the ‘Hannibal Directive’ to kill its own people alongside Palestinians on 7 October 2023, the Jerusalem Post (JP) newspaper has reported.
Yoav Gallant, Israel’s defence minister at the time, admitted during an interview last month that ‘Hannibal’ orders to kill both Israeli captives and their Palestinian captors were given repeatedly and in various locations – and even lamented that in some areas it had not been given, leading to Israelis being taken into Gaza. But now the JP has reported the Israeli military also admitting the use of the directive to ‘fire on anything that was moving’ – and that Israeli forces carried out almost 950 airstrikes and fired 11,000 times from helicopters, resulting in heavy casualties.
This is not, contrary to some claims, the first time that the occupation regime has admitted the Hannibal killing of its own citizens on that day, however. As long ago as November 2023, Israeli police confirmed that IDF helicopters had killed large numbers of Israelis at the Nova music festival and Israeli tankers were filmed discussing the orders they had been given to fire at Israeli homes with their owners inside them.
Even earlier, eye-witnesses had described how Israeli tanks had fired into kibbutz homes they knew contained Israeli families with children, killing many – including a young girl the regime then tried to use as a ‘poster child’ for its claims that the 7 October victims were brutally killed by Palestinians – and a reserve colonel flying Israeli helicopters said the Israeli deaths on the day were the result of a ‘mass Hannibal’. Israeli spokesman and former ambassador Mark Regev inadvertently admitted the same when he had to reveal that around two hundred burned ‘Israeli’ bodies were in fact Palestinians burned beyond initial recognition at the same time as the Israeli casualties.
Soon afterward and well over a year ago, Israel’s military itself gave away the truth when it told the Yediot Ahronoth newspaper that the reason it was refusing to have a formal investigation into the ‘friendly fire’ killings was because the number killed was ‘immense and complex’:
I think some people are conflating arabs and muslims in their assessment of past racism in the middle eastern area.
Arabs were i'd say average, it's the Mamluk who were particularly good (for their age standards). Those were non-arab ex-slaves basically.
My basic guess is that simply because mamluks were composed of a lot of different cultures and ethnicities , they were less "racists" (using the label in modern day terms)
I dont think people realize the MENA was dominated by (relatively) cosmopolitan, tolerant and secular Iranian and Turkish empires for most of the past 1000 years, that were a counterweight to Arab intolerance and fundamentalism. And with the destruction of said empires, discovery of fossil fuels in Arabia, and alliances with the US; the political and cultural center of the Muslim world shifted back to Arabia; and became much more fundamentalist and oppressive; especially following the dismal failure of the Arab secular nationalists to destroy Israel.
Ethnic cleansing advances.
AP report: Sudan and Somalia asked to take Gazans.
didnt they already try to deport them to Congo and Rwanda? what African country is next? am I even allowed to say it?
You expect them to do that while under brutal occupation, with Israel still expanding its borders? The ethnic cleansing is ongoing.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers Bill. They’ve had 80 odd years to figure it out and instead of showing signs of progress, they’re worse off in every measurable way. There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers Bill. They’ve had 80 odd years to figure it out and instead of showing signs of progress, they’re worse off in every measurable way. There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
hummus
So what, they still made great hummus in Palestine before Israel bombed them into the stone age.
Mind you, human beings really shouldn't need to justify their right to exist freely or face extermination. Surely turboposting fascist clowns would be first on the list of those who need to be put down if that was the case.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers Bill. They’ve had 80 odd years to figure it out and instead of showing signs of progress, they’re worse off in every measurable way. There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
The Jaffa orange, preferred by Europe since before Israel existed. A hybrid created by Palestinian farmers who were making the desert bloom.
But it sounds like you are saying they do not deserve protection.
So what, they still made great hummus in Palestine before Israel bombed them into the stone age.
Mind you, human beings really shouldn't need to justify their right to exist freely or face extermination. Surely turboposting fascist clowns would be first on the list of those who need to be put down if that was the case.
You are correct, that is why it is so important for Israel to exist as a homeland for the Jews. No more constantly facing wars of extermination.
Luckily for the Palestinians, Arabs have lots of nations that can absorb them. So both Jewish and Arabs can live peacefully without fear of extermination. (At least as soon as Iran and their Arab proxies stop trying to exterminate all the Jews in Israel)
I go out of my way to avoid buying anything from apartheid states such as Israel.
In Italy avocados come either from there, or from south america.
it's 1 eur vs 2.5 each i suppose because many people think like you do. I am very happy to be able to buy the israeli ones at 1 eur each (approx 4 eur per kilo).
Some yarden white wines also are decent, i buy them when i find them.
I would boycott palestinian terrorists but they don't sell anything i would otherwise buy so i can't unfortunately.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers Bill. They’ve had 80 odd years to figure it out and instead of showing signs of progress, they’re worse off in every measurable way. There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
5 generations of Palestinians resisting evil, meaning resisting the greed and inhumanity of European colonial settlers, is a contribution to humanity greater than any technological consumer device. The reason Asian people (for example) can come to the U.S. and integrate into our society very seamlessly, and we as Americans can eat Japanese food and make new friends with Asian people is because African Americans survived slavery and racial oppression and, in so doing, taught humanity the necessity for tolerance and pluralism and other lessons about our shared humanity across all races. The civil rights regime exists as it does because of the triumph of black people in this country over the barbarism and greed of the Europeans. Human rights and human civilizational stability through human rights, is a greater achievement than any scientific or technological achievement.
If the Palestinians can similarly triumph in their own country it will teach the world what is possible for international human rights. If they can't God help us all because the ideologies such as Zionism, that of violence-first tribalism, will kill us all eventually if it prevails.
In Italy avocados come either from there, or from south america.
it's 1 eur vs 2.5 each i suppose because many people think like you do. I am very happy to be able to buy the israeli ones at 1 eur each (approx 4 eur per kilo).
Some yarden white wines also are decent, i buy them when i find them.
I would boycott palestinian terrorists but they don't sell anything i would otherwise buy so i can't unfortunately.
Say what you want about al Qaeda but they can rotisserie a chicken with the best of them.
I do like shipping them to Sudan, one of the only places that rivals the danger and murder of Gaza. maybe consider shipping them to the Donbass too.
I don’t pretend to have all the answers Bill. They’ve had 80 odd years to figure it out and instead of showing signs of progress, they’re worse off in every measurable way. There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
There have been and are a few notable Palestinians around (that is, notable for things other than terrorism):-- the models Bella Hadid and Gigi Hadid, the late academic / author Edward Said, the US Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, the film actress Clara Khoury, the rapper and record producer Fredwreck (Farid Karam Nassar), the violin and oud virtuoso Simon Shaheen, the late London book and magazine publisher Naim Attallah and quite a number of lesser known academics, medics, authors, poets, journalists, artists, musicians and so on.
People -- particularly, I suppose, Zionist people -- often like to make disobliging remarks about Palestinian achievement, by implicit and mocking contrast with the Himalayan peaks of Jewish achievement. But Jews mostly managed those achievements in just the past couple of centuries, in rich advanced countries where they were no longer on the whole heavily oppressed, ghettoised or subject to race laws and restrictions and could thus gain privilege. (Mind you, it's still quite funny that Einstein, on arriving in the US after declining a chair at Oxford, praised the academic and social freedom of the US like a good boy, when he knew perfectly well that the IAS at Princeton had to create a fellowship specially for him because the Ivy League colleges -- including Princeton, which is co-located with the IAS but is a completely separate institution -- all operated a Jewish quota and wouldn't have anything to do with him.)
There have been 5 generations of Palestinians, please cite a single achievement or contribution to humanity.
This omega-racist freak has the gall to call other people racist. Holy cow.
Hopefully if he ponders this issue for a while he can think up a reason or two why Palestinian society has not fully flourished as of late BEYOND his idea of them being genetically or culturally inferior.
No, I don’t believe either he or Luciom can.
