Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
This is utter horsesh*t from a person who hasn't spent a single minute in Israel. Just go, visit. You'll be perfectly safe. You'll see this is a total fabrication.
Why presume to know where I've been? Anyone can go to the tourist parts of a place and not know a damn thing about what's really happening in the country. Anyone can ask google what it's like to be an Arab living in Israel. I don't see the point of carrying on with such falsehoods in this time where people can look at video of just about everything. Are you like 80 years old or something? Even the standard bearers of normieism like U.S. presidents and Senators call Israel an apartheid state. Are there tears running down your face while you are shaking your head in psychological denial as you type that?
Not a deflection because I think the situation in Israel is obviously historic/grave, but for people who talk about democracies in the Middle East, and what that does or doesn't look like:
Are you guys following what's happening in Turkey? That is THE super power in the Middle East to my eyes. Very big moment for them. And they are shutting down democracy with an iron fist.
It has been a big moment for 20 years.
For autocracy to come suddenly, you need a state that is already failing. When that isn't the case, you need to corrupt it over time. The latter is what has happened in Turkey, with Erdogan's regime slowly corrupting or dismantling institutions meant to impose checks and balances.
The latter has been Turkey's journey. It has similarities to events in the US that we saw unfolding from 2016-2020 and that are continuing at an even greater clip now. We also see clear parallels to Israel and the corruption and rise in nationalist / authoritarian tendencies from Netanyahu's various cabinets, the main difference that Netanyahu rules under a parliamentary system and relies on coalitions. Unlike someone like Orbán in Hungary, these aren't fake coalitions. They have certainly been growing increasingly batshit insane, though.
What we see in all four countries are how these "conservative" / nationalist governments are very corrupt, and how dismantling the checks and balances also allows for even more corruption. But that is the advantage of the "strongman"... you don't need to correctly identify anything or fix it. The problem is whatever you say it is, and if you say you have fixed it, then it is fixed.
Of course, if you compare it to something like Iran's theocracy or the once-government of Hamas in Gaza, you might be able to pass these corrupt authoritarians as shining beacons of democratic liberty. And there is no shortage of people doing such comparisons, even in this thread. It is a pointless exercise however, like thanking a robber who stabbed you for not slitting your throat. That is not a yardstick you should be using.
Israeli historian
:
I hesitated to call things genocide before October 2023, but what tipped the balance for me was when Israel stopped all humanitarian aid into Gaza. They are using starvation as a weapon of war. That’s genocide.
Where is Blue? I want to make sure that google got this translation right.
https://ch10.co.il/news/965785/
Surely this man is facing charges as Blue insisted that such speech is illegal. Maybe Blue can look up this guy's case with his lawyer skills.
Why presume to know where I've been? Anyone can go to the tourist parts of a place and not know a damn thing about what's really happening in the country. Anyone can ask google what it's like to be an Arab living in Israel. I don't see the point of carrying on with such falsehoods in this time where people can look at video of just about everything. Are you like 80 years old or
Israel isn't a big place. The moment you aren't in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, you're out of the tourist places. So go see how people live. Talk to some Arabs and come back to me. Because you'll quickly find out that Jews and Arabs are friends and coworkers in Israel. Whatever weirdo version of this you're painting, isn't true. And fwiw Jerusalem actually is a very good place to go find out. The Muslim quarter, you'll find some answers.
I've been from the very Northern border to Eilat. From Haifa to the Golan. I've never once seen what you describe. But I have played basketball for whole days with Arabs. Never had anything but fun, and dinner with them after.
It has been a big moment for 20 years. For autocracy to come suddenly, you need a state that is already failing. When that isn't the case, you need to corrupt it over time. The latter is what has happened in Turkey, with Erdogan's regime slowly corrupting or dismantling institutions meant to impose checks and balances. The latter has been Turkey's journey. It has similarities t
great post
Israel isn't a big place. The moment you aren't in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, you're out of the tourist places. So go see how people live. Talk to some Arabs and come back to me. Because you'll quickly find out that Jews and Arabs are friends and coworkers in Israel. Whatever weirdo version of this you're painting, isn't true. And fwiw Jerusalem actually is a very good place to go
ofc they are exceedingly nice to you. they dont want to get arrested and tortured.
Na dude. Because believe me, they also tell you not where to go (all the time). There are specific wrong turns you don't make, because people aren't afraid of what you're saying, the way you're saying it.
There are just lots and lots of Arabs and Jews who are lifelong friends down there. These are just the facts you'd know if you ever went, and did more than just cut/paste X.
Arab Israelis are not feeling very safe at the moment, not that they ever could. Many ITT have seen documentaries on the treatment of Arab Israelis. It's basically something like the Jim Crow treatment of black people earlier in the 20th century. Racism in Israel is built into the national ideology. It is an ethno-supremacist state. That's why it's an evil. That's why I remind
Why presume to know where I've been? Anyone can go to the tourist parts of a place and not know a damn thing about what's really happening in the country. Anyone can ask google what it's like to be an Arab living in Israel. I don't see the point of carrying on with such falsehoods in this time where people can look at video of just about everything. Are you like 80 years old or
TOO LATE
Where is Blue? I want to make sure that google got this translation right.https://ch10.co.il/news/965785/ Surely this man is facing charges as Blue insisted that such speech is illegal. Maybe Blue can look up this guy's case with his lawyer skills.
Knesset members enjoy immunity Mr crazy.
Israel isn't a big place. The moment you aren't in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, you're out of the tourist places. So go see how people live. Talk to some Arabs and come back to me. Because you'll quickly find out that Jews and Arabs are friends and coworkers in Israel. Whatever weirdo version of this you're painting, isn't true. And fwiw Jerusalem actually is a very good place to go
If I have an Aab partner now, and two Arab employees (out of a 12 person staff), should I let them use our bathroom?
God this people are so clueless and yet so sure of themselves, it is really crazy
Na dude. Because believe me, they also tell you not where to go (all the time). There are specific wrong turns you don't make, because people aren't afraid of what you're saying, the way you're saying it.
There are just lots and lots of Arabs and Jews who are lifelong friends down there. These are just the facts you'd know if you ever went, and did more than just cut/paste X.
So your stance is Hamdan ballal just made a wrong turn at *checks notes* his house?
Israel isn't a big place. The moment you aren't in Tel Aviv or Jerusalem, you're out of the tourist places. So go see how people live. Talk to some Arabs and come back to me. Because you'll quickly find out that Jews and Arabs are friends and coworkers in Israel. Whatever weirdo version of this you're painting, isn't true. And fwiw Jerusalem actually is a very good place to go
Sure.
Rafiki says it's truly heavenly for Arabs.
Times of Israel says
Hey Jal, BEEP BEEP
I'm not a terrorist or linked with any such groups, so I don't know why you're threatening to blow me up.
Oh wait, that distinction is unimportant to you.
The life expectancy of Arabs in Israel is much higher than people in the US.
And they have the same life expectancy as Jews that live in similar areas. The main reason for the gap is the Dan Bloc (Tel Aviv area), which is mainly Jewish and has more resources than the rest of the country. In my area there is no difference in life expectancy
I can go on, but you are crazy
I'm not a terrorist or linked with any such groups, so I don't know why you're threatening to blow me up.
Oh wait, that distinction is unimportant to you.
are you sure that you arent a sniper in Hamas?
It is KNOWN. It is discussed.
It draws very similar parallels to black and hispanic communities in North America.
They have the same legal rights as the Jews. But they tend to live in poorer cities, and tend to have less formal education. This is very much akin to the reason you see this happening with black communities in countries all over the world.
The gap between that and apartheid, is massive. And to say that you wouldn't be friends with them as a result, is ignorant. Do you have no black friends where you live? Same question for the Americans in here.
Of course you have black friends. Doesn't mean there aren't multi dimensional generational issues to resolve.
But I ask you this: compare mortality and health of Israeli Arabs to Iran/Syria/Egypt etc and get back to me...
They have the same legal rights as the Jews. But they tend to live in poorer cities
you are omitting that they are simply not allowed to move to all but very few areas.
https://www.hrw.org/reports/2008/iopt030....
and comparing this to redlining is not exactly favorable to Israel.
They have the same legal rights as the Jews. But they tend to live in poorer cities, and tend to have less formal education. This is very much akin to the reason you see this happening with black communities in countries all over the world.
So it's because of generations of oppression?
It’s enough for you that you think they are.
