Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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34878 Replies
the BBC middle east online editor, Raffi Berg, is fanatically Zionist with links to US and Israeli intelligence.
Israel hasn’t made an official announcement of that happened; but from what is leaking out it appears I am more or less correct.
There was Hamas militants in the convoy and The IDF did not follow their own procedures to minimize civilians death.
And if they had they maybe shouldn’t have attacked at all. Let be honest. The international aid apparatus is completely compromised. It supports Hamas more or less unconditionally and works with them and for them. There is going to be Hamas militants embedded in any major operation. Does that give Isrsel carte Blanche to act? Most people would say probably not.
yes the people who have lied at every opportunity are totally telling the truth right now.
Hamas dragged this on far too long and by this point most of the Western world has moved on and accepted that the Israelis are going to do whatever they want. Hamas has no more leverage and the Israelis will end this on their terms.
Hamas dragged this on far too long and by this point most of the Western world has moved on and accepted that the Israelis are going to do whatever they want. Hamas has no more leverage and the Israelis will end this on their terms.
I think this is why BBC and other pro Hamas actors are acting with so much urgency over this incident. They see it all slipping away, and this is a last chance to have things go their way.
Trump acting so erratically and creating so much chaos so that everyone is way too distracted by more pressing matters has definitely been a big negative development to Hamas, their sycophants and supporters.
It sounds like the IDF royally ****ed this one up but who is going to hold them accountable now? Trump? Spain? Ireland? For better or for worse, the Biden admin tried to exact some measure of restraint from Israel. I’m sure that will be controversial to some but it’s hard to argue things have improved since Trump took over (for the Gazans).
It sounds like the IDF royally ****ed this one up
by getting caught?
but who is going to hold them accountable now?
its funny when you contract yourself in the exact next sentence.
the only difference between this and things that happened every day for the last year and a half is that there is irrefutable video documentation that even the pro-genocide Western outlets like BBC couldnt ignore.
but like you said, nothing will change. bc the White Empire has given Israel carte blanche to genocide for fun and profit. and in that light, its even possible that Israel was actually intentionally sloppy here to further demean, dehumanize, and instill fear.
the fact is that they have been targeting medical and civil workers for the last year and a half all over Palestine and Lebanon. but Western media requires actual video and audio evidence in high definition before than can even begin to broach the subject. not that it matters for true believers like you guys who just immediately believe the same entity that gave us the mass rape hoax, mass beheading hoax, Al Shifa hoax, Al Ahli hoax, fake Mein Kampf, fake calendar, and more than I have the energy to document right now. Israel has never told the truth on anything and you guys are like yep, good enough for me!
The BBC is going quite big on the IDF ambush of paramedics (whose vehicle emergency lights were on, contrary to the IDF claim):-
This is an online video, but the story has been on every BBC broadcast bulletin all day.
This was three days ago:-
As they should. Video evidence seems to clearly indicate how they were lying in their initial statements about the convoy's markings and lights, and the burying of the victims doesn't exactly tell a story of someone who thought they were firing on legitimate targets.
IDF has claimed they killed Hamas militants. Well, if they had time to bury the corpses of civilians, that tells us they had control of the area and had time to gather evidence for reports. Evidence that IDF should be able to produce. Though, that they already been caught lying does not exactly inspire confidence.
Of course, there is the question about where the lying occurred... did it occur in the reporting from the units on the ground, or did it occur in the statements from command. Regardless, critics can now legitimately pose the question about whether IDF command routinely accepts questionable reports from the ground.
Along a similar vein, it raises legitimate questions whether this is about incompetent and hastily trained units, poor / undisciplined local command or a systematic lack of respect for rules of engagement from the top down.
And for anyone who thinks you can't focus on these things on war. Yes, you bloody well can.
yes the people who have lied at every opportunity are totally telling the truth right now.
Are you denying that international aid workers and journalists have been uncovered as hamas or working with hamas?
https://govextra.gov.il/unrwa/unrwa/#:~:....
https://apnews.com/article/al-jazeera-jo...
It seems like we just forget whenever a breaking news story happens that there is reason to suspect hamas hides among civilian infrastructure. Their leader was found hiding out with fake passports and documents, in tunnels underneath apartments.
Your incredulity at these claims is a carefully crafted act. We know that if you found out Hamas was pretending to be ambulance drivers you would praise it as a novel war tactic and noble opposition to Israeli genocide.
Both of those are claims by Israel who has no credibility at all and is in the midst of committing a genocide. So ya, ofc I deny that.
Are you denying that international aid workers and journalists have been uncovered as hamas or working with hamas?
You didn't read this one. It ridicules Israeli claims.
As they should. Video evidence seems to clearly indicate how they were lying in their initial statements about the convoy's markings and lights, and the burying of the victims doesn't exactly tell a story of someone who thought they were firing on legitimate targets.
IDF has claimed they killed Hamas militants. Well, if they had time to bury the corpses of civilians, that tells us they had control of the area and had time to gather evidence for reports. Evidence that IDF should be able to produc
What are you talking about? Israel says they buried the bodies so wild animals wouldn't eat them, and then contacted the UN to tell them what happened (allegedly lying to make the ambush seem more justifiable), and then coordinated with the UN to come retrieve the bodies. Which by all accounts is exactly what happened that no one is disputing.
Introducing burying the bodies as "evidence" the IDF was covering something up seems bad faith. I am guessing that all the reports of "close range executions" will also prove to be completely bad faith. I read a couple BBC articles on the incident, and I find them to extremely be bad faith, as they carefully word things to make insinuations they know aren't true.
The only discrepancy between Israel reports of what happened, and what appears to have actually happened, seems to be video evidence contradicting IDF claims the convoy did not have its lights on and was acting suspiciously.
And all the narratives of the IDF hiding evidence and close range executions are complete bad faith propaganda.
Seems to be pretty neutral, and you know AP really hates Israel so that seems to be indicative that there is grounds to believe their claims.
"In January, Israel detailed allegations against 12 employees of a United Nations agency that it says were involved in the Hamas attack on Israel last year that ignited the war in Gaza. The U.N. agency for Palestinian refugees, or UNRWA, subsequently fired at least 21 staffers for their roles in the attack. UNRWA has been the main supplier of food, water and shelter to civilians in Gaza during the war."
They buried the vehicles too.
The word “burying” seems to be doing a lot of work here. The IDF says they bulldozed the vehicles, buried the bodies in a shallow grave and then reported their version of what happened to the UN and told the UN where to go to retrieve the bodies.
And for all their bad faith insinuations, and selective reporting of such details; none of the reporting so far seems to contradict this.
As they should. Video evidence seems to clearly indicate how they were lying in their initial statements about the convoy's markings and lights, and the burying of the victims doesn't exactly tell a story of someone who thought they were firing on legitimate targets.
IDF has claimed they killed Hamas militants. Well, if they had time to bury the corpses of civilians, that tells us they had control of the area and had time to gather evidence for reports. Evidence that IDF should be able to produc
Per IDF, they are now launching an re-investigation into this incident and admitting that the video evidence that ran contrary to their initial claims about the attack is genuine.
Reading between the lines, this all but an admission from IDF that critical details in initial reports from the ground units were falsified.
The word “burying” seems to be doing a lot of work here. The IDF says they bulldozed the vehicles, buried the bodies in a shallow grave and then reported their version of what happened to the UN and told the UN where to go to retrieve the bodies.
And for all their bad faith insinuations, and selective reporting of such details; none of the reporting so far seems to contradict this.
I do like how the pro-Israel side has moved from "it didn't happen" to "it's fine if Israel executes paramedics so long as they tell the UN afterwards".
There's more humanity in a zombie apocalypse film than in the pro-Israel contingent itt.
I mean Israel as a matter of policy uses Palestinians as human shields and straps bombs to them to inspect houses bc they value the life of dogs more than them. Ofc they have no humanity.
Foreign Secretary David Lammy has criticised Israeli authorities after two Labour MPs were denied entry to the country, describing the move as "unacceptable, counterproductive, and deeply concerning".
Abtisam Mohamed and Yuan Yang were refused entry because they intended to spread "hateful rhetoric" against Israel, the Israeli population and immigration authority said in a statement reported by Israeli media.
Lammy said: "I have made clear to my counterparts in the Israeli government that this is no way to treat British Parliamentarians."
He said the foreign office had been in touch with both MPs to offer support.
Ms Yang, MP for Earley and Woodley, and Ms Mohamed, MP for Sheffield Central, flew to the country from Luton airport on Saturday with two aides, according to reports.
Interior Minister Moshe Arbel denied entry to all four individuals following an interrogation, the population authority said according to the Times of Israel.
Why were they traveling to Israel? Seems like that should be a pertinent detail, but the article completely leaves it out. I gotta say, BBC has turned into a very biased, poor quality outlet. Little space between them and Al Jazeera at this point.
I mean Israel as a matter of policy uses Palestinians as human shields and straps bombs to them to inspect houses bc they value the life of dogs more than them. Ofc they have no humanity.
This isn't true, but regardless you have a very confused perception of humanity if you really believe this. The idea that you should necessarily risk the lives of your own troops to protect civilians of the enemy is an extremely modern idea, that has been very unevenly applied in the short time it has been around. Hamas certainly doesn't subscribe to such ideas.
Do you think Genghis Khan and Alexander the Great followed the Geneva Conventions? I don't.
I mean the greatest, most perfect man to ever live (according to approximately 1/3 of the world) completely genocided an entire tribe of people (murdered the men, and enslaved the women and children, taking the most beautiful princess as his personal sex slave) because an angel told him to do so.
If you are arguing that most of the 2 billion people in the world today have no humanity because of their reverence for such a figure, I wont challenge your assertion. But seems harsh.
Why were they traveling to Israel? Seems like that should be a pertinent detail, but the article completely leaves it out. I gotta say, BBC has turned into a very biased, poor quality outlet. Little space between them and Al Jazeera at this point.
It really shouldn't be a pertinant detail but the BBC says
The paper reported Israel had not verified the arrival of an official visit but in a statement the UK Foreign Office confirmed the group was part of a parliamentary delegation.
I dont doubt with the inctreasly horrific Israel regime that whatever they said would be unacceptable to it. What isn't?
