Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
There’s surely a non 0% chance that Victor and Jalfrezi are Hasbara. Working from within to delegitimize the movement. Genius.
but still laughing at this one
right well "All lives matter" is a clear dog whistle to White Supremacy. sort of like how "Israel has a right to defend itself" is clear support of mass murder of Palestinian children.
By bad actors, sure.
But how is quoting the Major Premise of the implied BLM argument 'White Supremacy'?
Major Premise: Human lives matter.
Minor Premise: Blacks are humans.
Conclusion: Black lives matter.
A valid and sound argument in my opinion.
To put it another way: The reason black lives matter is because all lives matter.
Grant Napier I don't believe was reputed to be a White Supremacist. Hard to keep a job for years as an NBA announcer if that were true.
By bad actors, sure.But how is quoting the Major Premise of the implied BLM argument 'White Supremacy'?Major Premise: Human lives matter.Minor Premise: Blacks are humans.Conclusion: Black lives matter.A valid and sound argument in my opinion.To put it another way: The reason black lives matter is because all lives matter.Grant Napier I don't believe was reputed to be a Whi
Im not saying Napier was a White Supremacist in the overt sense. but like almost everyone else (myself included) he has surely internalized Western (aka White) Supremacy. that is how we are educated, indoctrinated, and propagandized in this country.
thats beside the point though. the phrase "All lives matter" was created in direct response to BLM (maybe ostensibly) advocating for fair treatment.
Proof
, not just Hamas targets.
the IDF is posting Facebook ads for bulldozer operators to help demolish the strip
If it was an active combat area, they wouldn't be leisurely destroying buildings with bulldozers.
Proof
, not just Hamas targets.If it was an active combat area, they wouldn't be leisurely destroying buildings with bulldozers.
Hamas is everywhere in Gaza, it's all Hamas targets
Proof
, not just Hamas targets.If it was an active combat area, they wouldn't be leisurely destroying buildings with bulldozers.
This has been the strategy since the restart of the war in March. Destroy every building and bulldoze them clean, and hopefully that solves the tunnel issue.
Unfortunately, the IDF had by far their most casualties of the past year in June, so I doubt many people will be signing up for the engineering units.
immune, no. but it got reduced. but until it stops completely we have to accept that killing civilians, even in large numbers, can be necessary to stop violence.that's my answer you contested before. "when does it stop" (when does the killing of civilians stop) ? never until all radical violence stops.simply killing civilians to kill the violent radicals is part of what the rad
If you and all your family and friends lived in the Gaza Strip you would feel a tad differently. Just a guess.
Butchering innocent people for progress is not the answer.
This has been the strategy since the restart of the war in March. Destroy every building and bulldoze them clean, and hopefully that solves the tunnel issue.
Unfortunately, the IDF had by far their most casualties of the past year in June, so I doubt many people will be signing up for the engineering units.
Iran ballistic missiles and drones raining down on Israel last month was a wake up call to just how urgent it is to neutralize the southern front once and for all. The last thing Israel can afford is Iran coordinating with a reconstructed Gazan proxy if/when the next time Israel is attacked.
After 10/7 Israel accepted there is no political situation possible with Iran and its proxies, so it is making a play for military victory, and gambling what fills the void is someone Israel can work with.
I could be wrong, but 20 military casualties being a deadly month is probably something the Likud govt feels it can live with for a few months more.
At the end of the day Israel's goal is physical security. Which requires taking control of strategic highland (Golan Heights, West Bank), making political solutions with entities it can, and defeating militarily the entities that it cant (mainly Iran and its proxies).
In Lebanon/Syria the strategy seems to be working probably beyond expectations. Iran influence is getting squeezed more and more out of the region, and the groups filling the power void seem much more amendable toward political solutions.
The Likud govt is gambling that if they can keep pushing Hamas into a smaller and smaller territory, and deny them the aid and weapons it uses as leverage to control the populace, it will fold.
As long as the UN and intl aid agencies don't come in and prop Hamas back up (as UN leaders want to happen) at some point they will reach the point of no return were they dont have enough land, money and weapons to take back control of Gaza, even if/when Israel leaves.
Iran ballistic missiles and drones raining down on Israel last month was a wake up call to just how urgent it is to neutralize the southern front once and for all. The last thing Israel can afford is Iran coordinating with a reconstructed Gazan proxy if/when the next time Israel is attacked. After 10/7 Israel accepted there is no political situation possible with Iran and its
I think there are three Palestinian children still alive down by the Egyptian border. Make sure the IDF obliterates them asap so you can sleep at night.
History has taught you nothing.
I think there are three Palestinian children still alive down by the Egyptian border. Make sure the IDF obliterates them asap so you can sleep at night.
History has taught you nothing.
Muhammad is credited with destroying entire tribes down to the last child. He is regarded as the most moral man who has ever lived by billions today. An estimated 150 million people (mostly) proudly carry his name sake.
Genghis Khan was worse and is highly celebrated today. There are over 20 million people in the world today who carry his surname.
In WWII the US dropped atom bombs on Japanese cities, killing tens of thousands in seconds. 80 years later Japan is regarded as a close ally of the US.
Since its inception less than 150 years ago Turkey has committed multiple literal genocides and killed and displaced millions. It is still going on. And no one today cares at all.
What lessons should I be gleaning from this history?
IMO the narrative you accept uncritically concerning Israel's "atrocities" is very inaccurate. No-one is getting genocided. The Palestinian population grew last year. When the smoke clears, millions of Palestinians will still be living in Gaza and the West Bank; hopefully without any Iranian supplied paramilitaries operating there.
And if this happens, and the actions of the last 2 years usher in a new era of peace and prosperity between Israel and its neighbors; I think history will look back on Israel much more evenly and magnanimously than many in the present are.
The Resistance is a highly malignant force that destroys from within every society it infects (Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Yemen, Iran). And if/when it is excised, I am optimistic real peace and progress can occur. I hope this is what history will tell me in a few decades.
Time will tell I guess.
Muhammad is credited with destroying entire tribes down to the last child. He is regarded as the most moral man who has ever lived by billions today. An estimated 150 million people (mostly) proudly carry his name sake. Genghis Khan was worse and is highly celebrated today. There are over 20 million people in the world today who carry his surname. In WWII the US dropped at
So murdering large amounts of people is ok if it fits a long term narrative?
Maybe history will prove me wrong. But from what I can tell, most of the moral outrage is based on bad faith propaganda; and if Israel is able to bring peace and prosperity to the region by pushing Iran and its paramilitaries out than history will look much more magnanimously on Israel than the present.
Although I doubt there is going to be millions of people named after Netanyahu in 1500 years, unlike the other historical actors I brought up who are revered by billions today despite a much more questionable moral code by today's moral standards.
killing large amounts of people can be ok ofc depending on the circumstances. it certainly isn't inherently always wrong.
using the word murder already implies the killing itself was unlawful and wrong though. which is why we have different words to discuss killing, exactly because it isn't always necessarily bad.
If you and all your family and friends lived in the Gaza Strip you would feel a tad differently. Just a guess.
Butchering innocent people for progress is not the answer.
if I lived in Gaza after having decades to move the **** away, and I decided to have a family in a dirty poor place among the worst in the world to grow a family, then it wouldn't be me at all.
I don't do such irrational and completely irresponsible acts.
and btw there is no me that is born elsewhere with different ancestors and culture. there is no veil of ignorance that allows you to pretend the same person could have existed elsewhere.
I only exist with the exact chain of events that allowed me to exist and it would not be me if you changed anything about that
if I lived in Gaza after having decades to move the **** away, and I decided to have a family in a dirty poor place among the worst in the world to grow a family, then it wouldn't be me at all.I don't do such irrational and completely irresponsible acts.and btw there is no me that is born elsewhere with different ancestors and culture. there is no veil of ignorance that allows
the veil of ignorance isn’t supposed to be real, it’s a thought experiment.
If you and all your family and friends lived in the Gaza Strip you would feel a tad differently. Just a guess.
Butchering innocent people for progress is not the answer.
Well yeah. Which is why Israel has worked so hard to come to political solutions with the Muslim world, and has made much progress with most of the Sunni world.
But with the IRGC and its paramilitary proxies it appears there is no political solution. The IRGC leadership, which has had very little turnover since taking power over 40 years ago, motivated in large part by a belief in magic (so there is nothing to do about it) has decided destroying Israel is their core magical mission.
So either Israel lets them succeed or they dont. And right now Israel seems to be trying to stop them by severely weakening their Arab paramilitary proxies and assassinating their current leadership, with the hope a new generation of leaders (either the IRGC or some other form of govt) will be more amenable to a peaceful, political decision.
Maybe history will prove me wrong. But from what I can tell, most of the moral outrage is based on bad faith propaganda; and if Israel is able to bring peace and prosperity to the region by pushing Iran and its paramilitaries out than history will look much more magnanimously on Israel than the present. Although I doubt there is going to be millions of people named after Netan
Alongside the monstrous acts the condemnation will also be the lack for the lack of any plan/attempt to bring peace & prosperity to the region.
I doubt netanayah efforts to avoid being held accountable will survive for very long after he loses power. I suspect he strongly agrees with this.
it is a bad thought experiment and framing question with the veil of ignorance does imply a truly bad thinking process about moral realities.
Not randomly, the veil of ignorance was invented by a radical psycothic ultra leftist. Which is why it shouldn't be used and people using it should be mocked
Speaking of the Young Turks, Cenk tweeted out this banger a couple days ago.Of course, what he failed to mention (which in fairness he probably doesn't even know as he has no interest in religion except as a vehicle to disparage Jews and promote Muslims, while knowing pretty much nothing about either religion) is that in Islamic lore Jesus will come back as a Muslim to destroy
I am no Cenk fan. To me, heis one of those people who has cultivated a particular political persona mainly as a way to make money, which is very off putting to me. But I would not rate this tweet or his overall knowledge of Islam as his main problem.
Im not saying Napier was a White Supremacist in the overt sense. but like almost everyone else (myself included) he has surely internalized Western (aka White) Supremacy. that is how we are educated, indoctrinated, and propagandized in this country.thats beside the point though. the phrase "All lives matter" was created in direct response to BLM (maybe ostensibly) advocating
As I remember, Napear's ridiculous defense of Donald Sterling pretty much ruined his relationship with players.
it is a bad thought experiment and framing question with the veil of ignorance does imply a truly bad thinking process about moral realities.
Not randomly, the veil of ignorance was invented by a radical psycothic ultra leftist. Which is why it shouldn't be used and people using it should be mocked
It's not definitive but like utitarianism it's a very good way of informing moral thinking. And it has a very practical use in dispute resolution, law making etc.
I understand why you dont like it.
I am no Cenk fan. To me, heis one of those people who has cultivated a particular political persona mainly as a way to make money, which is very off putting to me. But I would not rate this tweet or his overall knowledge of Islam as his main problem.
Well yeah, Geezer bringing up the Young Turks as a go to for information and moral clarity just brought to mind the tweet.
