Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
It’s not a rhetorical attack. I’m pointing out that what you’re proposing is an idealistic fantasy at present. This is evidenced by you not being able to offer up even the slightest hint of what this political solution would look like
It is an entirely rhetorical attack. You're offering the same 'idealistic fantasy' with no ability to give the slightest hint what the solution is.
The horrors being inflected are a means with no more of an end.
LONDON — Pressure built on the U.K. and Germany to toughen their stances on Israel after Emmanuel Macron said France would recognize the Palestinian state.
Leaders in London and Berlin are now seriously considering their own substantive action, despite the backdrop of conflicting domestic pressures — with a quarter of the population in Gaza facing famine-like conditions, according to a U.N. World Food Programme official.
“The time has come to end the war in Gaza,” the leaders of the U.K., France and Germany said in a joint statement Friday. The “most basic needs of the civilian population, including access to water and food, must be met without any further delay.” An expected call between the three leaders Friday was postponed until the weekend.
But while they are united on the urgent need for a ceasefire, any closer coordination remains difficult. Britain’s Keir Starmer and Germany’s Friedrich Merz have so far declined to follow suit on recognizing the state of Palestine — though both are searching for new ways to exert pressure on Israel.
Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney accused Israel late Thursday night of obstructing humanitarian aid to Gaza and called for international agencies to take over all distribution.
“Canada condemns the Israeli government’s failure to prevent the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian disaster in Gaza,” Carney said.
“Israel’s control of aid distribution must be replaced by comprehensive provision of humanitarian assistance led by international organizations. Many of these are holding significant Canadian-funded aid which has been blocked from delivery to starving civilians. This denial of humanitarian aid is a violation of international law,” he added.
The sad thing is that all these countries have been bought and paid for by Qatar so there is no thought of putting any pressure on Hamas or their Qatari handlers to improve the situation.
At some level I think Most of the leaders of these nations realize just how morally compromised they are in ignoring Hamas/Qatar, which is why it is so hard for them to act.
And of course no one should have anything but complete disgust for the cynical weaponization of western empathy by much of the rest of the world, who are completely indifferent to any human suffering except as a tool for leverage and to push their own agendas.
opposing the country, army, people, and institutions doing this is antisemitic.
It is an entirely rhetorical attack. You're offering the same 'idealistic fantasy' with no ability to give the slightest hint what the solution is.
The horrors being inflected are a means with no more of an end.
Maybe you haven’t been paying attention to recent developments in the Middle East. A lot has happened, and much of it with force rather than political will. Most of it benefitting Israel and unfortunate for Iran and all those associated with it. I think we have to just agree to disagree though.
The sad thing is that all these countries have been bought and paid for by Qatar so there is no thought of putting any pressure on Hamas or their Qatari handlers to improve the situation. At some level I think Most of the leaders of these nations realize just how morally compromised they are in ignoring Hamas/Qatar, which is why it is so hard for them to act. And of course no
You a Trump fan?
Trump and Qatar get along great
lol @ “Qatar gate”
Hamas has opposed political resolutions at every opportunity and every time it participates, it openly says it's just a step in the eventual elimination of the state of Israel.Many deluded themselves into thinking they were keeping up appearances. In truth, some political factions in Hamas were probably more practical and were willing to negotiate for a de-facto two-state solut
Ron Paul said Israel funded Hamas early on as a bulwork against secular Arab nationalism.
Israel is not going to be dissolved. It’s an established first world nation. The Palestinians can agree to live along side Israel or continue to live in a perpetual state of refugee hood and poverty. I’m just going to assume that was a poor attempt at comedy.
Agreed nuclear armed Israel ain’t going anywhere….even Saudi Arabia supplies Israel with intel on Iran
So why then do some pro Israel folk claim they are threatened with extinction???
Most Gazans and Israelis are normal people ….
Gaza has no jets ,no tanks, no organized legit military. No real military power. Why aren’t Gaza jets hitting Tel Aviv??
Some Israelis say the government allowed oct 7 to occur. I mean it’s the most monitored area in the world….
Ron Paul said Israel funded Hamas early on as a bulwork against secular Arab nationalism.
Well, that is because Netanyahu has opposed a 2 state solution. And realized as long as Hamas was in power, a 2 state solution would be a complete non starter, because Hamas sucks so much.
It is kind of bizarre how people who think Netanyahu is the devil re-incarnate support Hamas, and use the argument that Netanyahu also supported Hamas, as a reason for their support.
It would seem if you wanted to be intellectually consistent, you should be completely opposed to Hamas exactly because Netanyahu supports them because they are so destructive to Palestinian society.
Trump has been bought and paid for as much as European leaders. But it isn't just Trump. It is a very long list across the political spectrum. In addition to having Trump in their pocket, Qatar is the number one foreign state funder of left wing American universities, despite having zero interest in liberal education. It is completely to peddle influence.
Qatar houses and funds the largest US air force base in the Middle East. its absurd to act like they arent an ally of the USA. they are just as complicit in this genocide as Europe and the Gulf states.
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/...
Turkey to provide Syria with 2 billion cubic metres of gas annually
--As much as level 0 antisemites like Victor like to proclaim the HTS Syria govt is an Israeli puppet, the truth is installing HTS is part of a larger Turkey-Qatar-US plan to build natural gas pipeline infrastructure stretching from Qatar all the way to Europe (cutting off European dependence on Russia); and this is the first step. In addition, the US is making land deals with Aizerbaijan and Armenia to facilitate the larger project.
--Assad, Russia and Iran were adamant against the Sunni Axis building natural gas pipelines through Syria for obvious reasons.
--And although Israel attacking and weakening the IRGC axis of power certainly facilitated Trump-Qatar-Turkey making this power play, but they are not the authors of this play. And Netanyahu himself doesn't even want a strong unified Syria; although because he has made Israel so dependent on the US he doesn't really get a say in the matter.
Qatar houses and funds the largest US air force base in the Middle East. its absurd to act like they arent an ally of the USA. they are just as complicit in this genocide as Europe and the Gulf states.
Qatar plays both sides towards their own ends. Much as the US has done in the past (such as when it was supplying Iraq and Iran with weapons in their war). At the end of the day they are more strategically aligned with the US (and Israel by default) than the IRGC axis. But that being said, they disseminate a lot of the anti-Israel propaganda, and supply and encourage IRGC and its proxies to fight Israel, so all other parties are weakened to their benefit.
Well we can file away Chezlaw’s hypothetical political solution with other possible scenarios like aliens and the return of Jesus lol.
Well, that is because Netanyahu has opposed a 2 state solution. And realized as long as Hamas was in power, a 2 state solution would be a complete non starter, because Hamas sucks so much. It is kind of bizarre how people who think Netanyahu is the devil re-incarnate support Hamas, and use the argument that Netanyahu also supported Hamas, as a reason for their support. It wo
The argument that is presented is that in the late 1980s various Israeli officials funded and/or allowed Hamas to grow. The reason was because they felt that it would be so conservative so far right wing religious that it would distract from the more secular Christian inclusive Arab nationalism that preceded Hamas…..
Anyway also in the modern times two things can be true at the same time which is that there is religious supremacy from both inside Israel and Gaza. But I still believe it is fair to say most Gazans and Israelis are normal every day people. The big difference is that all of the power is with Israel. They control all of the water, power and supplies into the Palestine territories. They have all of the military power too …. It’s one of the most lopsided military conflicts in recent history.
Trump has been bought and paid for as much as European leaders. But it isn't just Trump. It is a very long list across the political spectrum. In addition to having Trump in their pocket, Qatar is the number one foreign state funder of left wing American universities, despite having zero interest in liberal education. It is completely to peddle influence.
Well Qatar exerts financial power but some of the experts have said that is sort of over blown. Anyway it is a prosperous stable Muslim majority country along with the other GCC states ….unlike a multitude of Muslim majority countries who experience widespread poverty.
Idk if Trump a bought…. The man is a billionaire. He is not incentivized to be taking money from foreign countries. May sound hard to believe certainly he is abrasive and boisterous if you will….he is doing what he can to prop up business in America, which perhaps will also help his business. He also happens to be pro Israel but he has been on record directly standing up to Netanyahu probably more so than Biden for example, by telling Israel to back off of striking Iran during a ceasefire
https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/...Turkey to provide Syria with 2 billion cubic metres of gas annually--As much as level 0 antisemites like Victor like to proclaim the HTS Syria govt is an Israeli puppet, the truth is installing HTS is part of a larger Turkey-Qatar-US plan to build natural gas pipelin
Rudy Rochman is a Israeli soldier with a relatively popular podcast who along with others, have suggested that Israel attempted to create its own military jet program in the 1980s only to be blocked by the US military industrial complex. So that is interesting and worth noting to your point about Israeli dependence on outside power. Although certainly in the modern era, the IDF and the mossad still exert great power. The capabilities of the mossad is well known as they have carried out assassinations of political/mility leaders all over the world, not to mention the recent pager operation
I do not believe that Israel is dependent upon the United States. In other words, they do not need money from the United States to survive. Again this is a nuclear armed country, very critical to keep in mind. With sophisticated modern military equipment and one of the best intelligence services in the world….Their biggest opponent right now would be Iran and Iran backed militias. Long gone are the days of the Arab Israel rivalry. If there was really actually an Arab interest in attacking Israel, you would have Jordanian and Egyptian jets hitting Tel Aviv.
lol Israel would be done tomorrow without the USA. they were thoroughly defeated on Oct 7th and the only reason they still exist is bc of the genocidal desires of the White Empire led by the USA.
the right wing says that Israel controls the USA but its the opposite. they are the hatchetmen of White Empire. and when its convenient the ruling class will turn on them.
Mass starvation stalks Gaza as deaths from hunger rise
Israel has severely limited the amount of food entering Gaza, where society is on the brink of collapse.
But testimonies from doctors, relief workers and Gazans this week make it clear that a worst-case scenario is finally unfolding: Nearly 1 in 3 people are going multiple days without eating, according to the United Nations, and hospitals are reporting rising deaths from malnutrition and starvation.
once again, the Palestinians and alternative media were right about something and eventually, when its too late to matter, the mainstream media comes around to the same conclusion.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-eas...
