Israel/Palestine thread

I am against all Supremacists including the Jewish version that the Israelis practice.

no you are not, you in favor of arab (and persian) supremacists, you never asked for an arab majority country (or iran) to stop discriminating against jews and pay reparations for the wealth they stole from jews before kicking them out in the last 50-100 years.

You are also in favor of Han supremacy, you don't give a **** about the ongoing outright cancelation of tibetans and uighur from existence by the han super majority.

Hallo! What is a radical leftist? And then what is a radical rightist?

might want to look up what really happened in those Arab countries.

Hi, as i was describing an event in Italy, i will use the definition that i apply here.

A radical leftist is someone who is to the left of the center-left main party (partito democratico) for a sizeable amount of topics. The partito democratico has a nuanced position on israel/palestine, similar to the social democrats in Germany (dunno which country politics you are familiar with).

A radical righist would be someone on the right of Meloni for a sizeable amount of topics. I am to the far right of Meloni on several topics (mostly economic ones) so i would qualify, although most radicals on the right in Italy are neo-fascists and/or putinists to they qualify by being on the right on different stuff than me.

The mayor of Genoa is the daughter of an actual communist (an active member of the partito comunista italiano when it existed and was relevant) which is to the left of the partito democratico.

Recent double tap on the hospital clearly targeted journalists,

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000010370105/nasser-hospital-gaza-israel-attack-videos.html

nytimes

Video: Videos Contradict Israel’s Rationale for Deadly Hospital Attack

Thanks for the response

What is the issue with being a communist? I have found that many times, psychos will try to hide their dictatorships with buzz words. I suspect that is the case here.

Do you know any examples of communism that have been tried but without corruption and the threat of a higher government powers violence?

This time she will break the blockade and save Gaza. It’s not purely performative engagement farming.

the issue with being a communist is that when you deny basic biological reality, to clarify the need for a social hierachy to exist and the fact that people are greedy, you cannot build any working society.

All issues with implementations of communism are inherent to the failure of communism to accept the way human beings are. It would be like having a solution to war which is based upon the idea that you simply just have to not do war.

You need a model that can work with people being greedy mother****ers and with some of them being especially greedy and especially hellbent on having no moral qualms doing anything to suceed. Unless your model can work decently under real life conditions, then your model sucks.

Communists also have bad (for me) values. Equality is moral horror for me for example under the communist definition. I think it's morally good for some people to have access to a lot more resources than others. But that's "just" a moral preference.

And the fact is those stated moral preferences are so obscenely against every fiber of every human being, i know for a fact they are all lying. They PRETEND to be for equality, what they mean is they think their life would be better under communism so they are communists. They actually don't give much of a **** about others, and we know that to be objectively true by their revealed preferences (the way they end up doing things in real life).

It may be boring, but it is important. The point is so much of the outrage is manufactured, and not towards any productive ends. And we have an 80 year sample size showing that "pro Palestinian activism" is a tremendous net negative towards the Palestinian people, although it does benefit a tiny minority at the very top of the chain.

I mean if you admit you are a pro Palestinian activist for ideological and/or narcissistic reasons, that is fine. But you should also be cognizant this movement isn't doing 99% of the people any favors.

Conversely, the powers that be realized that there was no benefit to anyone, especially Greeks, in manufacturing outrage over Turkey's behavior towards Greek peoples through the 20th century. So the world basically told the Greek people to move on, and they did. And most would probably agree the current situation is much better outcome than a futile generational resistance effort.

It is even worse than this (for Victor). Al Jazeera and Hamas leaders started calling each other to confirm what happened, and Israel intercepted communications and used it to assassinate a major Hamas leaders. Looks like in investigating this story Al Jazeera basically was working for Mossad.

And whatever happened, all indications are it was actually fairly minor; and there is a non zero chance Mossad planted the whole story, and it was a trap all along. (although I am guessing something really did happen, and they just took advantage of a situation that sprung organically)

thats a long winded way to say that I was right but ok.

The current convoy is reportedly 44 ships. That is going to take a lot of manpower and resources to take care of. Israel should really find some legal, humane way to make the host nations of the activists pay for all the trouble. But I dont really know what their options are.

I doubt it is legal, or something either party would want to do even if it was legal (excluding Smotrich, who would probably be fine with it), but it would be pretty funny if Israel made a deal with Bukele to ship the activists to El Salvador prisons.

They should sunk all the ships the instant they enter Israel water.

There aren't host nations (afaik). I mean maybe some communist countries sponsored this, like Spain, not sure. But Italy for example has no role in the ships that departed from Genoa. Those are enemies of the italian gvmnt (and the italian people), why should we pay for them? send us back the coffins if you can, or not, but we aren't responsible.

I am not picking on Italy. I know the ships left multiple ports, but I couldn't even name the countries they left from. And I dont know the legality of responsibility, and it is a complicated ethical question.

But all else being equal I feel there should be some question of the responsibility for a govt body when they know people under their jurisdiction are planning illegal, terrorist actions against another nation.

Especially considering a lot of these activists are probably repeat offenders like Greta.

where in Israeli water do you think these ships will go? or do you think that the Jewish Supremacists own the whole ocean?

afaik they aren't planning terrorist actions. They plan to drop food aid. They might not be accepted in the host country (Israel) but that's up to Israel to decide, it's not a flight a ship doesn't need clearance for arrival to depart legally. You can leave port legally and it's your own business where you go. They aren't moving illegal stuff so the countries those ships depart from bear no responsibility.

Unless they are bankrolling the operation then Israel ofc would be able to claim those countries are acting with hostility.

given there are no palestinian waters (palestine isn't a state), all waters that you need to reach to reach gaza shores are israel waters.

If they cross the red line without authorization they should all die

hmmph

yes and? all sources that aren't adamantly pro-Israel aren't useful at all in any conversation about Israel, we already established that.

Palestine doesn't exist, "palestinians" as a people don't exist (middle eastern arabs occupying gaza and west bank illegally exist), all the water in front of Gaza is owned by Israel, and Israel should enforce it's property right with lethal violence against trespassers.

Well, it is disputed. But A LOT of Eastern Mediterranean coastal waters are disputed, with Turkey being involved in most of the disputes. And the way things work, whoever physically controls the waters makes the rules.

right so like I said, its pure Jewish Supremacy. you will support them when they claim all of Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Egypt, Iraq etc. and I do find it kinda odd considering what your grandfather fought for. I suppose so long as they stay out of Europe then you will be fine with it.

Italian media is reporting that Elyan Amid (IDF chief of staff) said that basically all remaning Hamas leadership is outside of Gaza and the West Bank but they do intend to assassinate each and every one of them.

not sure why you think that me not supporting the existence of a state MY COUNTRY DOES NOT RECOGNIZE would mean i don't support the existence of, say, Lebanon in it's current borders with it's territorial waters as well.