Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33422 Replies
Bibi should immediately withdraw from Gaza and cease the bombing campaign.
Incidentally, it's a bit unfair how I give you clear answers to questions and you dodge my questions.
Can you clarify what answer wasn't clear or what question I dodged
I'll make it clear in caps
HAMAS SHOULD SURRENDER AND RETURN THE HOSTAGES AND THE BODIES
ISRAEL SHOULD NOT STOP UNTIL THAT HAPPENS
AFTER THAT HAPPENS ISRAEL SHOULD STOP
GAZA SHOULD BE REBUILT WITHOUT HAMAS IN POWER
A COALITION OF ARAB NATIONS SHOULD OVERSEE FOR SEVERAL YEARS TO ENSURE IT DOES NOT BECOME A TERRORIST HOTBED
Trolly
I'm the only one of the two of us answering questions honestly
You are just screaming bibi should stop without even considering what that would mean for the future existence if a Jewish state
I've been VERY CLEAR and laid out what I want to happen after the war
You don't give a **** what happens to either group after the war apparently
Shalom brother
considering Israel's main targets are women and children, I am pretty sure Sinwar survived so long just staying away from the kids.
maybe maybe not. its not you or Israel's right to make that decision for them. this is same reasoning that the West has used for centuries to subjugate native populations.
Israel's targets have never been women and children
Ever
I pray you someday gain clarity
where have I heard that before...just cant quite remember...
Israel is not just aiming at women and children, apparently they are double tapping their own hostages and pows too. (which, lets be real, we already knew).
that dude looks biased to me
Telegram!!!
hes pretty biased but hes got a much better track record than the IDF.
theres videos but I havent watched them.
The Gaza ministry of health has estimated that more than 44,000 people have been killed since Israel launched its military response to the Oct 7 Hamas attacks.
The Henry Jackson Society found that, based on Israeli and US military and intelligence reports, around 17,000 of these were Hamas fighters, but claims that this has been frequently overlooked in media reports.
Its report states: “The ministry of health, operating under Hamas, has systematically inflated the death toll by failing to distinguish between civilian and combatant deaths, over-reporting fatalities among women and children and even including individuals who died before the conflict began
Maybe 1.5 to 1 ratio of civilian to hamas
And the number of women and children being exaggerated?
I'm shocked
The report found numerous statistical anomalies and inaccuracies. Researchers say that around 5,000 natural deaths, which would have happened even without the conflict, appear to have been added to the list of casualties, including cancer patients who later appeared on lists of those still receiving hospital treatment.
Other errors – some of which were later rectified by the ministry – include adult casualties being recorded as children and several men being wrongly recorded as women, thereby artificially increasing the number of women and children recorded as killed.
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Researchers, who established that the majority of those killed were men aged 15-45, said they found a pattern of victims’ ages being revised downwards by at least one year when compared to data on the Palestinian Population Register in an apparent attempt to inflate the number of children recorded as killed.
“This misclassification contributes to the narrative that civilian populations, particularly women and children, bear the brunt of the conflict, potentially influencing sentiment and media coverage,” said Andrew Fox, the report’s author.
The Henry Jackson Society said the casualty figures also failed to distinguish between Gazans killed by the IDF and those killed by misfired Hamas rockets or during the distribution of food aid.
Very interesting
More and more it is looking like the Syria coup is a power play by the Qatar/Turkey/HTS Muslim Brotherhood axis to take control of Syria from Russia/Iran/Hezbollah axis. They may actually be fine with Israel taking control of the Western border Druze areas, to act as a buffer between them and Hezbollah, who they have been fighting for years.
Of course, HTS/Turkey have animosity with Kurds/Rojava; and because Turkey and Qatar are US "allies" it will be interesting to see if the US will be as willing to protect Kurdish interests against HTS as they did against Assad/Iran.
Trump could probably very easily be bribed by Qatar to completely give up Kurds/Rojava. Given that Turkey/Qatar are the main sponsors of Hamas I could very easily see deals being made where Turkey/Qatar are willing to give up support of Hamas for US concessions/support in Syria.
In an ideal world the Kurdish pieces of Turkey, Syria and Iraq could be consolidated into a Kurdistan. But no one, especially western leftists who are indifferent to events in the ME unless it is to criticize Israel or the US, seem interested in such an outcome.
The authors said that the Hamas-sanctioned casualty figures had been taken at face value by several international media outlets including the BBC, The New York Times and CNN.
According to the report, only five per cent of the media organisations surveyed cited casualty figures issued by the Israeli authorities, while 98 per cent used those provided by the Hamas-controlled health ministry.
The report, carried out by the Fifty Global Research group with the support of the International Institute of Social and Legal Studies, also accuses the United Nations of conflating civilian and military casualties in a number of its humanitarian appeals.
Wait the anti Israel UN also conflated numbers? Unpossible!!
It states: “The omission creates a skewed narrative portraying all casualties as civilian, shaping public opinion and international policy based on incomplete or manipulated data . . with Israel accused of ‘genocide’, ‘ethnic cleansing’ and ‘crimes against humanity’.”
Priti Patel, the shadow foreign secretary, told The Telegraph: “The manipulation of events and facts on the ground throughout this conflict confirms that a terrorist organisation like Hamas will distort the truth to further their own aims. The media must be alert to this and report information and events taking place in a responsible and balanced way.
Propoganda? You don't say
“War is a tragedy, but Israel has a right to defend itself against terrorists who are backed by the Iranian regime that also threatens our interests and efforts to bring peace and stability to the region.”
Amen
Andre Fox and the Henry Jackson Society sure sounds credible
According to the report, only five per cent of the media organisations surveyed cited casualty figures issued by the Israeli authorities, while 98 per cent used those provided by the Hamas-controlled health ministry
Haha
Ok, Victor and Mets, both of you take timeouts until you feel calmer whenever you think that is. Just chill out.
Why didn't you answer my contention that most or perhaps all of the hostages are already dead?
- Israel presumably doesn't know where the hostages are held, other than that they're very likely within Gaza
- Israel has levelled nearly all of Gaza
They're dead. And Israel killed them.
Not sure you have much of a grasp of the law, or morality. But when someone kidnapped dies, regardless of the specifics, it is the fault of the kidnapper.
You do? But wouldn't that result in an even-worse version of the Israel-Palestine status quo that led to 10/7 in the first place? I mean, Israel, fresh off of winning this "war", would surely seek to even further punish and/or ethnically cleanse whatever Palestinians remain in the area.
Once again, you can't brutalize a people for decades without eventually incurring a violent response, and that's the truth REGARDLESS of any moralizing from the broader world.
Those "brutalized people" have had as their goal the destruction of Israel and have had no interest in creating a permanent peace treaty (you can thank Iran for that). Ignoring that key piece of reality is standard operating procedure for those who wish Hamas had the resources to carry out their goal of destroying Israel.
Those "brutalized people" have had as their goal the destruction of Israel and have had no interest in creating a permanent peace treaty
shockingly the people who have been brutalized and murdered and enslaved for decades want to destroy the apparatus violating them.
despite all of that, Hamas offered in 2005 and many times since to settle on the 1967 borders. this is well documented.
shockingly the people who have been brutalized and murdered and enslaved for decades want to destroy the apparatus violating them.
despite all of that, Hamas offered in 2005 and many times since to settle on the 1967 borders. this is well documented.
You leave out critical information.
1) “Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."
2) "However...Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.”
Jerusalem was the capital of the Jewish kingdom in 1000 BC. What is the modern history of Jerusalem?
1) 1948 - State of Israel Established; Jerusalem Divided By Armistice Lines Between Israel & Jordan
2) In 1948, as soon as Israel declared independence, it was attacked by her Arab neighbors. Jordan conquered east Jerusalem, including the Old City and the Temple Mount. Under Jordanian occupation, Jewish residents of Jerusalem were forced out, half of the Old City's fifty-eight synagogues were demolished and the Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives was plundered for its tombstones, which were used as paving stones and building materials. No genocide here.
3) In 1967, after winning the Six Day War, Israel took Jerusalem back.
With the above expanded information it is clear that:
1) By demanding Jerusalem Hamas is asking for something it has no right to. They might as well ask for Washington, DC
2) Hamas does not even agree to peace even if given Jerusalem. Merely, it would be a "formula of national consensus"
As always, your arguments in support Hamas are utter nonsense, and untethered to reality. But everything about Hamas is utter nonsense and delusional.
You leave out critical information.
1) “Hamas rejects any alternative to the full and complete liberation of Palestine, from the river to the sea."
2) "However...Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus.”
Jerusalem will always be the undivided capital of Israel
