Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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33297 Replies
"Mass murder is okay if you're murdering non-citizens" is not and has never been remotely close to a norm in modern society, Lucio just made that up to convince himself he's not a weird violent creep.
Hi trolly, try to read again. "mass murder of aliens is so common throughtout history, can't really use fascism to describe that attitude".
Mass murder of your own people is much rarer, still not necessarily fascist (communists do that more historically), but at least rare enough to be linked to peculiar 20th century inventions
Israel is generally considered part of the first world. A "civilized nation"
Syria has been heavily propagandized, like much of the middle east, and especially the Islam world
Its clearly less about antisemitism and more about "Israel is a close personal ally that we are currently breeching freedom of speech to protect their interests on our own soil and I literally could not give less of a **** about what goes on in Syria"
Again, I dont think insisting everyone who is anti israel is anti semitic
Clearly? Lol. I’d guess only a very small minority of Israel detractors are primarily motivated because their freedom of speech is being infringed upon.
They murdered a ton of german disabled people, german jews, german homosexuals and german gipsies. As well as some german socialists/communists. And that started in peacetime.
And that's what made the regime uniquely evil in the eyes of many/most people.
Not many/most people. Since you don't like to be called a fascist, I'll just use a term that is really more clearly true and descriptive...Only to inhumane people like you. Most of the people the Nazis murdered in concentration camps were from Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary and other Eastern European counties. Decent, humane people, think the Nazis were uniquely evil for how systematically they murdered millions of people - most of them not German.
You said the Israeli government is a fascist government.
Are political parties banned wth pretexts in Israel, and their leaders arrested? are famous opponents of the Israel government killed by the goverment? are Israeli journalists critic of the government harassed violently, arrested, killed? did the Israel government nationalize most "strategic" sectors of the economy?
None of those things are distinctly related to fascism as a form of government except maybe the strategic sectors part
Most of the people the Nazis murdered in concentration camps were from Poland, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary
Like 3 million Soviets
I think any critical thinker would have a very hard time proving the Israeli government is fascist. And it certainly isn't to the Muslims who live among the Jews there.
Today I learned Lucy thinks what makes the Nazis evil was killing germans
Coordi I can paste the whole think if you want. But this is where chatgpt landed. And it actually nails the points pretty well
Conclusion
Israel’s political system, while exhibiting some characteristics that might overlap with elements of fascism—such as nationalism and militarism—does not fully align with the historical definition of fascism. It retains a democratic structure with regular elections, an independent judiciary, and a relatively open civil society. The country’s policies, especially regarding its treatment of Palestinians, do raise serious ethical and political concerns, but these issues are more accurately described in terms of ethnic conflict, colonialism, or apartheid rather than fascism.
In conclusion, while Israel’s political system is complex and contentious, it does not qualify as fascist by the conventional definitions used by political historians and analysts. The labeling of Israel as fascist is more an expression of political critique, often arising from frustration over its policies toward Palestinians, than a reflection of its actual governance structure.
And fwiw the apartheid section is lol, but I won't split hairs. it said what it said.
Coordi I can paste the whole think if you want. But this is where chatgpt landed. And it actually nails the points pretty well
If you ask AI "Is the US Government purely capitalistic" its going to say "no" in a very long explanation. Everyone still calls the US a capitalistic society.
If you want to argue that Israel exhibits fascist properties or tendencies but isn't fascist I am not going to argue against that
Humans like to wrap complex subjects in nice digestible bites and I am no different
None of those things are distinctly related to fascism as a form of government except maybe the strategic sectors part
not enough to be fascist but you absolutely need to be killing opponents and journalists systematically to even be remotely adjacent to fascism.
necessary yet not sufficient. you have to be a very violent autocracy/dictatorship to even be single digit % fascist. that is the point. Israel isn't.
you have to be a blatant dictatorship that denies basic political and civil rights domestically AND then share at least something specific with fascism to be adjacent to... fascism.
you cannot even vaguely hint at the option a country is fascist if it has free and fair elections and the government doesn't have assassin's on payroll to get rid of journalists and political opponents, that's the idea.
when you do keep using fascist to refer simply to governments doing things you dislike, you are pissing upon the blood of the victims of actual fascism
If you ask AI "Is the US Government purely capitalistic" its going to say "no" in a very long explanation. Everyone still calls the US a capitalistic society.
If you want to argue that Israel exhibits fascist properties or tendencies but isn't fascist I am not going to argue against that
Humans like to wrap complex subjects in nice digestible bites and I am no different
the USA is indeed far from being purely capitalistic but it's more capitalistic than socialist. I'd say 80-20
Israel isn't even 5% fascist.
is Blue around for a translate? just want to make sure that I got this right. seems that this mainstream Zionist reporter is saying he knows snipers who shot hundreds of people including children.
Cracking down on student protest is immensely fascist, or if our Italian guest is going to whine about the word, we can just say authoritarian. Jesus, if you're right and they're wrong, convince them - not with billy clubs, tear gas and prison.
They were wrong there was no convincing. They blocked Jewish students from classes. They illegally occupied the campus when they were told they couldn't. They started a riot in many situations.
Good for Trump. 400 million saved. Now I know the campuses will beg Trump for forgiveness and probably expel some "Palestinians" to show good faith. Hopefully he doesn't cave but he probably will.
I don't think the Jewish faith is a fascist religion but the Israeli government is a fascist government
You only harm the Jewish faith by insisting this link
Also, 95% of Jews are zionist is certainly a claim. Polling would indicate thats more like 60%
Polling would also indicate that about 50% of Jews are critical of the Israeli government
50% of any country are critical of their government.
Lol the protestors turned reasonable people away from the Free Palestine movement and helped get Trump elected. Are we sure they aren’t mossad plants? The protestors have done much more for Israel than for the Gazans.
As it stands, the Israelis have built a first world nation and have contributed to human society in basically every aspect. The Palestinians have stopped strapping bombs to their sons and daughters. That’s about as much as I can say for progress from the Palestinians. If you care about them you’ll want their situation to change drastically, even if that means making peace with the Jews and giving up the pipe dream of conquering Israel.
Lol the protestors turned reasonable people away from the Free Palestine movement and helped get Trump elected. Are we sure they aren’t mossad plants? The protestors have done much more for Israel than for the Gazans.
Well, the college protests have done zero for the Gazans, so this is probably right. But keep in mind the protests aren't about the Gazans; these are extremely narcissistic children. It is always all about them.
right I am sure you know what is best for them.
Well, the college protests have done zero for the Gazans, so this is probably right. But keep in mind the protests aren't about the Gazans; these are extremely narcissistic children. It is always all about them.
In fairness I don't think there were many "Palestinians" at the protests. A lot of sweaty palm neurotic white poeple were there.
Lol the protestors turned reasonable people away from the Free Palestine movement and helped get Trump elected. Are we sure they aren’t mossad plants? The protestors have done much more for Israel than for the Gazans.
As it stands, the Israelis have built a first world nation and have contributed to human society in basically every aspect. The Palestinians have stopped strapping bombs to their sons and daughters. That’s about as much as I can say for progress from the Palestinians. If you ca
I said it back then this nonsense is gonna get Trump elected. This would have been a genius move by Mossad. After about a week of taking over campuses Americans were done with these people. I'm sure this made a lot of folks think "Do what you gotta do Israel". The Gazans have yet to get anything right.
