Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
33863 Replies
None of them actually murdered by the government, unless your hatmaker works in tinfoil rather than felt. Now, if you'd said Fred Hampton...
this court ruling said differently. there was a conspiracy involving the US government to kill MLK.
if they did MLK and Hampton, why dont you think they did Malcolm too? Western civilization hates freedom, anti-slavery, and ant-war more than anything else in the world. we live in a society that values genocide and expropriation above all else.
Most of the countries you think are better than the US he wouldn't have lasted 10 minutes. In nations like Russia, Venezuela, North Korea, China he would have been deported at best and executed at worst after the first protest he participated in. I mean if you were a proponent of American exceptionalism, and you thought this arrest was in violation of such exceptionalism, that is one thing. But you obviously dont believe that, so not sure what the issue is from your perspective.
You cant have
I don't like or support any of the nations you mentioned. Russia? LOL. A hyper-capitalist wasteland in the middle of a moronic war. Sound familiar? And, for the record, the overwhelming majority of leftists/tankies/commies/whatever don't support NORTH KOREA. Like, 98+%.
How about Canada, UK, Scandi countries, Japan, New Zealand and Australia? (unfortunately, most of the Global South has been too destroyed by western imperialism to qualify) You think these nations would have "deported [Khalil] at best and executed at worst after the first protest he participated in"? Of course not.
The "issue from my perspective" is pretty simple; it's deeply inhumane and a violation of human rights to kidnap a guy and throw him in a cage to be deported for the great sin of criticizing the state-sponsored murder of Palestinians, and that remains true regardless of anybody's citizenship status or what-have-you.
You didn't even attempt to justify his treatment, you're just strawman-ing your way through my post with this (incorrect) stuff about how I feel about other nations, as though that has anything to do with my concern here.
(I mean, some of those nations MAY arrest him, at worst, they're not exactly beacons of free expression, except for in contrast to 'Merica)
damn, BOIDS really hates Arabs, huh
I do appreciate the poetic irony of him talking about his alleged opposition to rape while simultaneously lending his strong support to the world-renowned haven of sex offenders, Israel.
def should support North Korea versus the West. a largely self sufficient nation that has no foreign debt, not Imperialism, no colonization. NK is not built on the backs of slaves and extortion and expropriation throughout the world. they are one of the most moral countries in the world right now.
Not really the case. Oppenheimer and Ernest Lawrence (who would win the Nobel in '39 for inventing the cyclotron) were already on the faculty at Berkeley well before Einstein arrived in the US. But even if American universities were weak on physics, that would be all the more reason for them to want Einstein, only they didn't.
The IAS was created because the US was weak at high level physics and math. It was much easier to create new positions at the IAS for Hermann Weyl or Kurt Godel neither which were Jewish rather than dealing with the academic bureaucracy of 200 year old institutions like Harvard or Princeton. You are completely making up the notion that Einstein would have been a professor at Princeton if not for antisemitism.
def should support North Korea versus the West. a largely self sufficient nation that has no foreign debt, not Imperialism, no colonization. NK is not built on the backs of slaves and extortion and expropriation throughout the world. they are one of the most moral countries in the world right now.
oh snap, maybe 98% was an exaggeration, or maybe you're a rare one
I don't support the West OR NK, which I had assumed was the default position of the broad left. My understanding is that the North Korean elites hoard resources (much like a capitalist) and the average citizen suffers from hunger and other ills associated with poverty. Wiki says they limit internet access to "a handful of elite users and scientists". They had a big famine in the late 90s and the World Food Program had to come in there to feed the people.
There's some good here too, but I don't know, in my not-particularly-educated opinion on the matter, it seems like a rough place (some of which is due to the treatment of the outside world, granted)
Edit: I'd much rather support Cuba
I am just saying that in terms of suffering caused, North Korea is very low on this list. the US and its genocidal ethnosupremacist proxy Israel cause orders of magnitude more suffering.
oh snap, maybe 98% was an exaggeration, or maybe you're a rare one
I don't support the West OR NK, which I had assumed was the default position of the broad left. My understanding is that the North Korean elites hoard resources (much like a capitalist) and the average citizen suffers from hunger and other ills associated with poverty. Wiki says they limit internet access to "a handful of elite users and scientists". They had a big famine in the late 90s and the World Food Program had to come
The main difference between NK and Cuba afaict is that Cuba really does care about its people (apart from the small number of counter-revolutionaries), whereas NK is in a cult.
If the present trajectory of the US continues the main difference between Cuba and the US will be that Cuba will be by orders of magnitude a better place to live.
lads please discuss your preferred flavour of dogshit in nut nut's communism thread, not here. this one is for your antisemitic hot takes
An interesting segue, but doesn’t really refute my point all these nations would surely have acted much harsher much quicker than the US to squash dissent by a foreign national. Including Cuba.
And you don’t support a single one of the theoretical handful of nations that might permit his behavior.
So it is hard for me to take seriously that you value freedom of speech as a first principle anyways, as freedom of speech is pretty much anathema to communism in practice.
Like if Micro argues this was a clear violation free speech and wrong, than fine. But given your politics and ideology, it just comes across as extremely bad faith take coming from you Karl.
Not to derail the thread, but apparently North Korea has the highest prevalence of modern day slavery. According to AJ if you trust them. Maybe another instance of Victor’s sources leading him astray.
It’s interesting how if look at any random statement from Victor and take the polar opposite stance, you’re very likely to be completely right.
I mean, even if NK does a ton of slavery, they still arent as bad as the USA and its genocidal baby murdering proxies.
Of course.
We should reevaluate the view of Hamas in light of Israel's atrocities now that we've seen them for ourselves on TikTok.
I think Hamas are deranged scumbags, even if you use the admittedly unimpeachable source of news that is TikTok.
There was always a good case that Hamas were the good guys.
...
I don't see how "links to Hamas" qualify someone as worthy of deportation.
Military, financial, logistical, technical links. In an Aiding & Abettingesque sense.
If he has such links then arrest, charge try and convict his aiding &abetting ass and then deport him after a good long stint in ADX.
If not then leave him be in the Land of the Free where you're free to express your opinions, however odious and scummy normal people may find them.
If we apply the standard that links to terrorist groups qualify one for deportation there are thousands of Israeli lobbyists and supporters in the country who need to be rounded up and shipped out for their ties to terrorist organizations, namely the state of Israel.
Uncle Sam hasn't designated the sovereign State of Israel as a Bad Hombre terrorist organisation. OTOH It has designated Hamas (aka Good Guys-R-Us, in your universe) as a filthy freedom hating terrorist organisation, and in fairness, one can see why Uncle Sam in all his wisdom has seen fit to bestow such a moniker on the Good People of Hamas.
So no, Israel supporters don't need to be rounded up and shipped out. Neither do Hamas supporters, provided their support is limited to shouting on Campus and waving flags and not the aforementioned other types of support. Cuz if it is, then ADX or Gitmo, followed by a good deportation after they've served their hopefully hardass time.
If Khalil can be arrested for expressing an opinion then anyone can be arrested for expressing an opinion. Are we really going to let Israel destroy free speech in America so that they can commit crimes against humanity without being criticized? You can't call yourself an American and be that stupidly loyal to Israel.
He absolutely shouldn't be arrested for expressing an opinion, even a really douchey one as don't like your opinion, love your right to express it, freedom don't come free and one needs to throw in one's buck o' five and so forth.
In conclusion- expressing one's opinion, Yay
Aiding & Abetting- big-ass strong legal consequences nay.
they literally just shoot Palestinians for fun when they see them even in Jerusalem.
another reason I often post screenshots is so that you guys dont need to click the tweet to translate. its important to see these translations to know what Israelis really think. perhaps Blue can confirm the autotranslate.
425k followers on this account posting genocidal garbage. fhttps://x.com/AyalaHasson/status/1901001...
I don’t really follow any talking heads on Twitter, from either side of the conflict. Don’t plan on starting.
timeline is once again full of dead babies. good job Western Civilization.
I don’t really follow any talking heads on Twitter, from either side of the conflict. Don’t plan on starting.
you follow this person. and her ideology. you may not realize that you follow that agenda. you might even deny it. but when you support Israel and support the USA, then this is exactly what they are giving you.
In other news Trump has basically declared war on the Houthis.
Not sure what that is going to accomplish. The Houthis are completely indifferent to human suffering, their own or the 60 million Yemenis living under their reign of terror. And there is no indication we have the intel or will to seriously damage Houthi capabilities to terrorize international shipping. So we will just be using a lot of firepower for limited results. Unless the goal is to put pressure on Iran to muzzle their rabid dogs; which seems like a dubious undertaking.
Well, you are correct that Western civilization is partly responsible for providing the incentive structure to keep this 80 year war running.
The UN should be setting up a real refugee camp somewhere in the desert and completely evacuate Gaza of everyone but fighters. Just giving all the aid (and smuggling in massive amounts of firepower) to Hamas so they can use it to consolidate their power in Gaza is serving no good purpose.
