Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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34383 Replies
NK has done 0 genocides while the West does one every decade.
But please, continue to stan for the guys who weren't satisfied with just blowing up one hospital this week so they bombed an emergency room a few hours ago. Keep supporting mass murderers of children.
NK has done 0 genocides while the West does one every decade.
But please, continue to stan for the guys who weren't satisfied with just blowing up one hospital this week so they bombed an emergency room a few hours ago. Keep supporting mass murderers of children.
So are you saying North Korea are more moral than the west?
Yes of course.
top 5 genocides GO
I don't think Israel is committing genocide. If it forcibly displaces people against their will however, then they will be committing ethnic cleansing.
No it was framed that way in the Bosnian conflict and Kosovo also, not to mention Darfur.
10 million people were moved away from fighting in Darfur, over 2 million to other countries. Could you imagine what a **** show it would be if most of the world was agreed they had to stay in the conflict areas because moving them away would be "genocide?"
10 million people were moved away from fighting in Darfur, over 2 million to other countries. Could you imagine what a **** show it would be if most of the world was agreed they had to stay in the conflict areas because moving them away would be "genocide?"
I never mentioned genocide I said ethnic cleansing. Being pro Israel won’t make me become pro ethnic cleansing. If they engage in forcible displacement they can very validly be condemned for this , like any other country
What is the “insanely unsustainable fiscal situation”? The money we send to Israel is actually a minute fraction of the defense budget and from my understanding, much of the money gets reinvested in the US defense sector.
It gets an outsized amount of attention because of “reasons” but I’ve never seen the claim that the relationship is unsustainable backed up with numbers. It seems the sentiment is more that the relationship is unsustainable in the face of r
Interest payments on the national debt are bigger than the military budget right now, and there is no light at the end of the tunnel. The fact is that there are not enough buyers for 10/30yr bonds given the deluge coming down the pipeline, and a lot of that is going to have to get printed. Trump is trying to fix things, but even he isn't willing to touch the biggest problems (SS and Medicare), and he is hurting America's standing with his solution to the interest rate problem (forcing allies to give up their shorter term paper for 100yr bonds in exchange for military protection).
Having said that, I agree that with an iron political will, the US can continue to keep the Israeli military going ad infinitum (other inflationary countries like Iran manage to do it), but insofar as Americans are going to have to make a lot of sacrifices, propping up pariah states might be one of the first things on the chopping block.
You understand the other side is 100% subsidized by outside nations, including the US. They have no economy, no water, no food, no eletricity production, no weapons production, nothing. Are you applying this standard to the Palestinian territories too? Because if you did, Israel could just turn off the electricity and water, and everyone would have to leave or die of hunger/thirst, and Israel would win by default.
Anyways, the point is; as much as Israel is being supported from the outside, the
I get that, but there is that extra dimension we've talked about before of the US worrying about its public image. I don't think they will allow Israel to go that far, and if they don't, then Palestinians will still be there. And given that the Palestinians are willing to make much bigger sacrifices than the average Israeli, they will never leave until Israel is cut off from funding (which seems almost inevitable, for the many reasons I mentioned), at which point they will be fighting an enemy that can be slowly ground down.
The US citizenship offer is an escape valve so that the Israelis have a good option and thus don't end up nuking anyone.
Israel is anything but stupid. When the US starts to defund them, they'll have new partners lined up to fill the gap. And most likely it will be Israel to disengage at that point as they will see it coming a mile away already.
The US is controlled by pro-Israeli interests far more than any other country. If they're out, then who is in?
Guys in fairness, if 500k people volunteer to leave for better lives, the situation for all remaining people is infinitely better. The same donated dollars will go much farther. The density will ease.
That assumes the 500k truly volunteer, and are set to thrive elsewhere.
I get that, but there is that extra dimension we've talked about before of the US worrying about its public image. I don't think they will allow Israel to go that far, and if they don't, then Palestinians will still be there. And given that the Palestinians are willing to make much bigger sacrifices than the average Israeli, they will never leave until Israel is cut off from funding (which seems almost inevitable, for the many reasons I mentioned), at which point they will be fighting an enemy t
Again, you are imagining this weird hypothetical that the world will stop supplying Israel, but would keep supplying the Palestinians, Israel would allow the Palestinians to heavily arm and attack them, and then Israel would be ****ed because they don't have the US supplying them for defense.
Again, you dont really seem to acknowledge how much capability Israeli has to stop the Palestinians, and how much they restrain themselves for political reasons. You seem to think that Israel will just continue to restrain itself even when they are existentially threatened, they have to worry about running out of arms, and there is no political reason for restraint.
I just dont see it.
its one of the most complete genocides in history. Germany didnt chase Jews to the ends of the earth to harass them and destroy their culture. in fact, they helped transfer many to Palestine and worked with the Zionist settlers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Ag...
the USA didnt chase Native Americans throughout the planet and destroy their lives.
does China chase Uyghurs all over the world to attack them?
Dun tries to act like Palestinians are safe in the USA or Europe but the fact i
We’ve reached the holocaust revisionism stage of antizionism in this thread, I see
It seems to me the whole pro Palestinian movement is running out of steam locally. The IRGC Shiite axis has been severely weakened and the Gulf States seem to be losing interest. At this point most sane actors realize the Palestinians are just losers who cant help themselves, and supporting them will just drag you down with them.
Honestly, it seems like most of the local Arab govts are at the point where they are ok letting Israel do whatever it wants. The govts will say the appropriate anti-semetic things to keep their people satisfied, but they dont really want to get involved any more than necessary.
The giant X factor is Egypt. Egypt has a giant fundamentalist anti-semetic population and real military capabilities (thanks to the US providing them military aid for decades in return for making peace with Israel), and there could be a real danger of an Islamist coupe if the people continue to be riled up by Israel successes. It also doesn't help that Egypt is the country that is actually being harmed the most by Houthis disrupting Red Sea shipping, creating economic and political instability.
Victor's posting is just complete nonsense. Although they are a giant potential 5th column should Israel's fortunes ever dim, there are millions of Arab Palestinians living mostly peacefully in Israel (minus the occasional religious terror attack, which is 90% Muslim on Jew) with more rights than they would have in pretty much any Arab country.
The only genocides that have actually taken place in MENA over the last 80 years is the genocide of Jews, and to a lesser extent Christians and other minorities, by Muslim Arabs. Unlike Israel, where millions of Muslim Arabs live under full protection of the law, Jews literally were genocided from most of the MENA in the last century.
Except for Iran, Israel is literally the most diverse nation in the MENA, that has had the least genocide and ethnic cleansing in the last 80 years. Look at the ethnic and religious breakdown of pretty much any MENA country today compared to 100 years ago. In most cases except Israel, you see a tremendous amount of genocide and ethnic cleansing, where Arab Muslim majorities have cleansed everyone else out.
The only genocides that have actually taken place in MENA over the last 80 years is the genocide of Jews
absolute joke. just the dumbest thing in this thread.
Israel literally did terrorism throughout Iraq to scare them into leaving.
in Algeria, the Jews were given French citizenship and contributed to the oppression of the Muslims. despite this, the revolutionary government begged them to stay.
in Yemen, Israel literally organized a massive undercover and illegal flight of 10s of thousands of Jews.
Reports are leaking of a large number of Hamas leadership being targeted and liquidated in the recent Israeli strikes. I dont think it can be understated just how much surveillance Israel has established over all of Gaza in the last year+, minus the few tunnels Israel knows Hamas has been hiding in with their Israeli hostage shields that Israel has avoided.
There really is nowhere in Gaza above ground for Hamas leaders to hide. And with the Netanyahu govt clearly not prioritizing getting back the hostages and without a US administration holding Israel back, it isn't clear what leverage Hamas has anymore.
Hamas main leverage has always been the rest of the world holding Israel back, and Trump has created so much chaos that no one else in the world really has the bandwidth to focus on Gaza and hold back Israel right now. Every other nation is to busy trying to navigate what Trump's seemingly mad foreign policy means for their own future.
That being said, there is a clear political solution Hamas can execute that would greatly benefit the Palestinian people. Hamas could give back the hostages and negotiate their leadership going into exile in Turkey/Qatar/etc. And as they have said they would, Egypt and the Sunni Gulf States would come in and take over security and rebuilding Gaza. For all his talk of the US rebuilding Gaza, I think it is pretty clear in a post Hamas world, Trump would hand the job over to Egypt and the Sunni Gulf states.
Unfortunately for the people of Gaza, Hamas values its own political future over that of the people. So here we are.
right they just blew up the Hamas civil servant who runs charity while he was praying (according to Jerusalem Post) in the surgical ward of a hospital and killed a bunch of doctors, nurses, and patients. good guys doing good things!
Finally got around to watching No Other Land today. Had to find a way to download it since there’s no one willing to distribute it here.
Victor, have you seen it?
no, I havent. I doubt that I will. months ago I read a bunch of Yuval articles about that area from over the years so I am vaguely familiar. it sounds so grim.
fwiw, Yuval took a lot of heat from the pro-Resistance side after the movie won the award. thats not why I didnt watch it though.
What did he take heat for?
NK has done 0 genocides while the West does one every decade.
But please, continue to stan for the guys who weren't satisfied with just blowing up one hospital this week so they bombed an emergency room a few hours ago. Keep supporting mass murderers of children.
I'm on record many times saying I didn't agree with bombing hospitals unless under some extraordinary circumstances but damn, does Gaza have the most hospitals per capita in the world by a magnitude or something? It's been like 20 months of weekly hospital bombings. Surprised they have anything left.
