Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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then why post it? just read Lebanese sources and see that this mainly impacted civilians and noncombatants.
Can you post some? Even Al Jazeera's headline is: "How did Hezbollah’s pagers explode in Lebanon?"
Who in Hezbollah would have these pagers? I don't think they would be frontline grunts, they're going to be at minimum unit commanders and above. You're at war and you have an opportunity to target multiple high level officials of your enemy. Who is not going to do it? Obviously Israel isn't going to blink if healthcare workers are part of the collateral damage but what if this was Russia's op against Ukraine? Would we all be up in arms? I'm honestly trying to think and it's probably be a pretty sour feeling but I think any country at war that has this chance is going to take advantage of the opportunity. It sucks but that is the **** that happens. Israel is not going to give up their country willingly.
Seems like now would be a great time for Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel (which it has been doing non stop since 10/7/2023) and retreat behind the Litani River, per Security Resolution 1701 they agreed to.
Can you post some? Even Al Jazeera's headline is: "How did Hezbollah’s pagers explode in Lebanon?"
Who in Hezbollah would have these pagers? I don't think they would be frontline grunts, they're going to be at minimum unit commanders and above. You're at war and you have an opportunity to target multiple high level officials of your enemy. Who is not going to do it? Obviously Israel isn't going to blink if healthcare workers are part of the collateral damage but what if this was Russia's op again
I would have to find it*, but I definitely remember seeing a "Syrian Girl" tweet indicating it was health care workers targeted. This account also stated the American University of Beirut was the only health care facility not targeted, implying "the US" was in on it.
*To be honest I dont really want to search for the tweet, because then the algorithm will start sending me antisemitic propaganda; but feel free to yourself if inclined.
I would have to find it*, but I definitely remember seeing a "Syrian Girl" tweet indicating it was health care workers targeted. This account also stated the American University of Beirut was the only health care facility not targeted, implying "the US" was in on it.
*To be honest I dont really want to search for the tweet, because then the algorithm will start sending me antisemitic propaganda; but feel free to yourself if inclined.
None of her tweets are going to move the needle for me
Things like MRIs can interfere with cellphones. Cellphones can become unreliable when too many people are using them during the type of crisis that overloads a hospital.
I can understand why Hez would use them but didn't know they were still a thing in the medical profession. Thought cell phones made them obsolete years (decades) ago.
Ah, OK. I thought you were asking why Hezbollah would use them. Hospital professionals are a group that uses pagers, yeah. Also, anyone in rural areas with bad cell phone coverage. I'm no expert in Lebanese cell towers but there have to be areas where phones are completely dependent on wi-fi and I'm not sure how common unlimited talk-text is.
Ah, OK. I thought you were asking why Hezbollah would use them. Hospital professionals are a group that uses pagers, yeah. Also, anyone in rural areas with bad cell phone coverage. I'm no expert in Lebanese cell towers but there have to be areas where phones are completely dependent on wi-fi and I'm not sure how common unlimited talk-text is.
Well they're in wider use than I realized so can see Victor's side of it more.
Can you post some? Even Al Jazeera's headline is: "How did Hezbollah’s pagers explode in Lebanon?"
Who in Hezbollah would have these pagers? I don't think they would be frontline grunts, they're going to be at minimum unit commanders and above. You're at war and you have an opportunity to target multiple high level officials of your enemy. Who is not going to do it? Obviously Israel isn't going to blink if healthcare workers are part of the collateral damage but what if this was Russia's op again
Hezbollah called the 8 dead "martyrs who died en route to Jerusalem" , it was all Hezbollah
Well, as I said before, 60%+ of health care workers are women. So if his side was correct, news reports coming out would indicate a lot of women health care workers were targeted (and given the time of day on a weekday when the attack happened many of them would have been in a hospital working at the time)
Do you get the sense that is what happened? Or do news reports coming out give you the sense the pagers affected were specific ones made for and used by Hezbollah members, who were the vast majority of casualties, with extremely low collateral damage?
Even pro-Islamist antisemitic media and social media are acknowledging Hezbollah members were targeted, and showing the vast majority of casualties to be men, who are presumably Hezbollah members.
Given this, accepting Victor's side would require an extreme level of cognitive dissonance and ignoring of reality.
And agin, I will go on the record saying I would like to see no more members of Hezbollah (or anyone in Israel) being attacked moving forward. Which is why I think it would be a great time for Hezbollah to stop attacking Israel, as they have been doing non stop since 10/7/2023 and to retreat above the Litani River per UN Resolution 1701 they agreed to, but violated before the ink was dry.
Chances are that a mass order for pagers going to hospitals is pretty rare.
When Israel saw a large 3k+ order for pagers they somehow put the explosives in knowing that the majority were going to Hezbollah and were fine with the fact that some amount of the pagers were being sent to innocent people.
"Most of the people injured were members of the Lebanese group Hezbollah, which blamed the attack on Israel.
Hezbollah has been trading attacks across the southern Lebanese border with Israel for nearly a year, since October 8 when it began its attacks to deter Israel from its war on Gaza, which has killed at least 41,000 people."
----Above is a direct quote from the front page of Al Jazeera, which not only acknowledges the pager attack targeted Hezbollah, but also acknowledges the current round of fighting began when Hezbollah opened up a second front in the North immediately in response to 10/7; before Israel had even flushed out all the Hamas Jihadis, much less began their counter-attack into Gaza.
I do find it interesting the Al Jazeera article argues Hezbollah's aim was to deter an Israeli counter response to 10/7; when it is pretty clear Hezbollah opening a second front did not provide any deterence at all in Israel's counter attack. So either Hezbollah is extremely stupid and ineffective, or this is not a good faith representation of their aim. I'll let the reader decide which is more likely to be the case.
Chances are that a mass order for pagers going to hospitals is pretty rare.
When Israel saw a large 3k+ order for pagers they somehow put the explosives in knowing that the majority were going to Hezbollah and were fine with the fact that some amount of the pagers were being sent to innocent people.
Why would any special ordered Hezbollah pagers be sent to innocent people? You understand this would have been some sort of military grade special order, and not the generic dinky pagers used by hospital workers. I have family members who have worked in hospitals and seen the pagers they use. Most of them are tiny and run on 1 or 2 AAA batteries.
Also, given the acknowledged objective of the pagers is to have a non-compromised line of communication among Hezbollah members, the idea that any would have been sent to "innocent people" does not seem like something Hezbollah would have allowed to happen.
That being said, I am sure there was some level of collateral damage in this attack, although orders of magnitude lower than even the most precise direct military operation. But your framing doesn't seem likely to be very accurate.
shocking that the Western liberal human rights supporters are doing apologia for a terrorist attack knowing hospitals were hit disproportionately.
at least most countries have released statements condemning this.
If it was a special order specifically for Hezbollah then yeah, you're right. I was thinking it was an order from a company that was already supplying pagers to the area, but what you said makes sense.
Why would any special ordered Hezbollah pagers be sent to innocent people? You understand this would have been some sort of military grade special order, and not the generic dinky pagers used by hospital workers. I have family members who have worked in hospitals and seen the pagers they use. Most of them are tiny and run on 1 or 2 AAA batteries.
Also, given the acknowledged objective of the pagers is to have a non-compromised line of communication among Hezbollah members, the idea that any wo
you guys are just making stuff up.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/taiwa...
In a statement, it said there had been no reports of explosions related to those products and that there were no records of the company exporting pagers directly to Lebanon.
“Was this batch of goods actually modified? ... Did another manufacturer produce them and simply label them with the Apollo brand? This part is still under investigation by the authorities,” a ministry spokesperson told NBC News.
probably Hezbollah since hes a brown man
another Hezbollah terrorist
Spoiler
When even Al Jazeera opens with the pagers targeted Hizbollah members, you have to think Israel managed to target Hizbollah members pretty precisely, whatever the mechanics (including sheer luck) were.
I am not entirely sure understanding which part of the supply chain Israel managed to intercept to insert the explosives matters except to satisfy people’s curiosities.
When even Al Jazeera opens with the pagers targeted Hizbollah members, you have to think Israel managed to target Hizbollah members pretty precisely, whatever the mechanics (including sheer luck) were.
I am not entirely sure understanding which part of the supply chain Israel managed to intercept to insert the explosives matters except to satisfy people’s curiosities.
Obviously, the farther up the supply chain, the greater the amount of "sheer luck" needed to make sure the victim is a terrorist and not, say, an EMT.
I am not entirely sure understanding which part of the supply chain Israel managed to intercept to insert the explosives matters except to satisfy people’s curiosities.
I'm sure ISIS and Al Qaida will be very interested in the ability to put explosives in personal electronic devices or cause their explosion.
