Israel/Palestine thread

I think it's the framing you repeat that is absurd

Ceasing fire on what israel insists is not it's territory is not a capitulation in any meaningful sense.

I remains skeptical but good on the usa for piling on the pressure. netanyahu can insist job done on destroying hamas as a military threat if he needs to save face. Then they better concentrate on defense rather than relying on the 'once for all' fantasy.

and in actual meaningful news, Qassam and Saraya Al Quds have announced they will be reintroducing martyrdom missions (suicide attacks). the last Hamas attack was in 2008.

havent seen if they will target civilians with these.

Hamas's previous rationale for suicide attacks was that they had no better means. with the advent of their indigenous weapons program and ability to smuggle weapons, they ordered a halt. so is the Resistance waning and running out of weapons and ability to stage military attacks?

You are the one that keeps assuring all of us that Israel has not weakened Hamas at all. But obviously no one is sneaking across the Gaza border to do suicide attacks. So if they decide to go this route, Hamas is going to have to rely on sympathetic parties doing the deed for them, and then claiming responsibility.

I understand there was a borked suicide attack in Tel Aviv today, there the bomber only killed himself. I dont know the exact timing of this announcement in relation to the attack, but seems like it is Hamas trying to take credit for it to gain leverage, and indirectly asking West Bank and Israeli Palestinians to do future attacks on their behalf.

"Concentrating on defense" is not a viable military or political solution.

Israel are going to have to do it. There's no path that avoids it for a very long time.

There is no 'once and for all' It's a fantasy

Sure it's not a solution. Eventually there has to be a persistant political solution

What concessions is Hamas offering to get their wishes? You understand this is how deals work right? There is give and take.

I was reading about this earlier this morning. If I was Hamas I wouldn't be taking credit for failing something like that but that's just me.

Actually, a successful suicide mission that resulted in a lot of Israeli casualties would likely harden Israeli and Western resolve against the Palestinians. A borked one like this could theoretically be used as leverage to pressure Israeli govt to give in without the blowback.

I doubt Hamas was involved in this attack. But trying to use it as leverage by saying they will start doing the same thing if a deal isn't done could be a legitimate, albeit very cynical, leverage play.

It’s safe to assume that any suicide attacks will deliberately target civilians. If IDF get hit it will be in the process of thwarting an attack.

I think some in here and Chezlaw have a fundamental disagreement on what constitutes “defense” in the modern era. If you expect Israel to sit and wait for every attack and only respond reactively, it’s just not realistic and you can drop it.

I don't just expect that at all.

But a strong focus on defense is going to be absolutely vital whatever israel do

how about diplomacy

no I have never assured that. and I just asked if ithis was an indication that their military capacity may have been degraded finally.

its more likely that they realize they are being genocided and many are willing to sacrifice themselves rather than die without taking out a few of their tormenters.

I like how we all just normalize and accept that despite all the US aid it receives, Egypt is completely a bad faith actor, and the second Arabs get control of the Rafah border back is the second weapons start being smuggled back in. And for all the BDS narrative, there is zero pressure (internal or external) to hold any other party but Israel to account for flagrant violations of peace treaties.

You are probably right. Losing tens of thousands of soldiers, the majority of their leadership, much of their infrastructure, and access to smuggling tunnels has probably not had any dent at all on Hamas military capabilities.

Might be time to stop worrying about that part of the world including all the aid that's being sent that way.

Is there anything Hamas has done, or could do, that you think is ''bad''?

I've seen some unhinged Hamas defenders but you're next level.

There is no "political" solution in Gaza that does not involve the use and threat of tremendous violence for decades. Especially if Hamas is left to operate.

we havent seen an appreciable dent in those capabilities. they are still fighting as a coherent force with appropriate weaponry. unless this is in an indication. which is what I said in my post.

I think nativists underestimate how fragile the global free market economy is, and how leaving the regional actors to their own devices would likely lead to escalations in hostility that will cause the global economy to collapse.

Maybe if we just left everyone alone the Muslim world would eventually win a full on war of attrition against Israel, but I dont think even the most ardent antisemite is going to think it was worth it when the smoke clears.

Most likely if the US disentangles itself from the area, China/Russia just move in and fill the vacuum and everything just gets worse for everyone else. This seems to be how things are playing out in Africa right now. And that is with all the regional actors being too poor and isolated to affect the broader world much; a luxury we dont have with the Middle East due to location and economy size.

This is how intelligence works in the real world. It's a lot easier to find specific information than to catch every relevant piece of information.

I dont think fighting back against a criminal apartheid regime doing genocide is bad no.

10/7 justified?

we need more details (Israel blocks all investigations) to determine exactly what happened but who cares what I think.

all I can say is that armed resistance is not only justified, but it is legal under international law.

I watched a bunch of videos filmed by Hamas themselves showing off their field trip on 10/7. Don't think we need more details to determine this wasn't armed resistance.

But hey, it's all about interpretation right? You see Hamas executing civilians and see ''resistance''. I see murder.