Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
It sticks in the throat but we need to find a way for leaders facing the reckoning when they leave office to leave and disappear into peaceful obscurity instead
The consenquences of their personal need to hang onto power are too great.
what percent think Israel should continue the "war"? also, what does Benny Ganz think? this isnt Netanyahus war. this is a national endeavor.
It sticks in the throat but we need to find a way for leaders facing the reckoning when they leave office to leave and disappear into peaceful obscurity instead
The consenquences of their personal need to hang onto power are too great.
again, the opposition leaders are just as hawkish on this mass murder spree as Bibi. blaming this on Bibi is just ignoring all the indications from Israeli society and media.
liberals: believe women!
also liberals: not that American women bc shes brown!
liberals: believe women!
also liberals: not that American women bc shes brown!
I don’t think the phrase “believe women” is particularly helpful nor is its original usage applicable at all to this situation but go off.
again, the opposition leaders are just as hawkish on this mass murder spree as Bibi. blaming this on Bibi is just ignoring all the indications from Israeli society and media.
Maybe but the combination of natural inclination combined with the need for self preservation is a particularly dangerous combination.
Well, most of the West Bank Jihadis are 16-19 year old young men, and these are classified as children; so yes, when IDF takes out Jihadis it is going to be classified as "children"
Also, just so we are all on the same page. Hamas announces they will begin suicide attacks from West Bank. A suicide bomber has his bomb (a very powerful one by the way) go off prematurely in Tel Aviv, miraculously killing no one but himself. Hamas takes credit for the attack. Israel announces they will initiate an aggressive campaign against West Bank terror activities, to dismantle the nascent sucide bomber infrastructure. Intense fighting in West Bank ensues.
Getting Bibi out would not end the war. Doesn't mean he doesn't need to go for things ti improve.
In other news the bodies of 6 more executed Israeli hostages were found. Looks like Hamas has accepted they aren't going to get the outcome they want out of hostage negotiations, so they are just going to murder all the hostages. I wouldn't be surprised if there were none left alive at all.
I assume Chez will now tell us that even if this is the case, Israel should still completely leave Gaza with no hostages and no deal, release all the Palestinian prisoners, and then rebuild Gaza for Hamas to rule over and accumulate weapons from Iran for the next major attack on Israel.
The families of the hostages seem to have a different take:
The families of the hostages seem to have a different take:
That article makes no speculation over Hamas strategy at all. It is a complete non sequitur to my post. If you want to blame Netanyahu for not accepting Hamas demands to maybe get some hostages back alive, then that is your prerogative.
But we have no indication Hamas had any intention of ever giving back any more live Israeli hostages. One hostage was basically let go because he was Arab. But it looks like there is a standing order to kill all Jews and Americans.
Of course Israel should leave gaza. And behave in the west bank.
Not so convinxed they should do anything for hamas. That always seemed a very bad plan by netanyahu so I'm not a fan. Going to have to start to rebuild political pressure but it's a deep hole to dig out of.
It is interesting how one of the hostages (Hersh Goldberg-Polin) that was found murdered was an American dual citizen, who had already had one of his hands blown off on 10/7 throwing out grenades that Hamas was throwing into a bomb shelter a group of Jews were trying to hide in during the 10/7 Nova festival massacre. Real heroic ****.
What makes this tragic case particularly interesting, on top of his heroism*, was he was someone whom Trump and Biden have mentioned; and whose parents were even speakers at the DNC. And despite this interest by the US, Hamas still made a choice to murder him. Like the Houthis, Hamas has appeared to take the position that while they demand US, and the rest of the West, unconditional aid them to fund their never ending war to destroy Israel; they will offer absolutely nothing but death, destruction and contempt in return.
Of course the Democrat Party under Biden (and probably Harris) is uncomfortably agnostic towards the IRI and its proxy groups threatening and attacking Americans; and shows a very disturbing sympathy towards the IRI to the point several previous advisors with national security clearance are being actively investigated as Iranian spies. So maybe this is Hamas just flaunting that they know Biden/Harris have already been bought and paid for, and they fear no reprisals for their actions.
Or maybe they miscalculated and there will be some sort of fallout from this. But given Biden's flaccid response, and Harris's non response, it does not seem likely to be the case.
*On top of his heroism on 10/7, like many at the festival he was a peacenik who had dedicated his life to trying to bring the Jewish and Palestinian communities together. But on 10/7 the Palestinians made it extremely clear what they think of Jewish peace activists.
So maybe this is Hamas just flaunting that they know Biden/Harris have already been bought and paid for, and they fear no reprisals for their actions.
Or maybe they miscalculated and there will be some sort of fallout from this. But given Biden's flaccid response, and Harris's non response, it does not seem likely to be the case.
think you have to examine the assumption that hamas still has a coherent and centralised decision making structure
i doubt that anyone important was involved in the decision to murder their most precious resource (live hostages). this recent episode was most likely a panic decision made by a small group of isolated terrorists who saw that the net was closing and decided to fulfill their highest calling, being the murder of defenseless jews
To be fair. Hostages develop Stockholm syndrome. So you can’t really take what they say at face value.
Except the Stockholm syndrome concept has been bogus the whole time
*On top of his heroism on 10/7, like many at the festival he was a peacenik who had dedicated his life to trying to bring the Jewish and Palestinian communities together. But on 10/7 the Palestinians made it extremely clear what they think of Jewish peace activists.
I meant Hamas when I wrote this. Although if polling is to be believed, most Palestinians believe the actions of 10/7 were justified, so maybe this is the correct word regardless.
Now that Hamas is actively executing hostages, including American hostages; are we all still expected to accept that the day after will involve Hamas continuing to be involved in running Palestinian society?
Now that Hamas is actively executing hostages, including American hostages; are we all still expected to accept that the day after will involve Hamas continuing to be involved in running Palestinian society?
Who is expecting or accepting this? Even if I was extremely anti-Israel and just cared for the Palestinian people I’d want Hamas gone. Not like Hamas is all that good to its people.
Who is expecting or accepting this? Even if I was extremely anti-Israel and just cared for the Palestinian people I’d want Hamas gone. Not like Hamas is all that good to its people.
so ou are against any form of ceasefire , because they are incompatible with hamas being gone for good?
what's your proposal to eradicate Hamas (and any similar group) forever?
