Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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If they are so reliable, why is it that the first case I looked into of “child killing” turned out to be BS? Are they just specially insane when it comes to I/P issues?
Post it, I'd like to look. Reliable does not mean perfect. There are many reasons it could be wrong.
With all due respect, HRW, when it comes to Israel, is just not a reliable source.
And its own website is proof of it. There are stark differences in writing styles and required standards of proof when it comes to accusations against Israel vs. accusations against anyone else in the middle east.
This is to say nothing of the long trail of former HRW writers and editors that have pointed out how biased HRW is against Israel for unspecified reasons that over time really sounds a lot like anti-semiti
I would guess "liberal naivety" of these two options. How are the writing styles different; are they as awful as the BBC's from last page?
HRW is extremely pro West and thus innately pro-Israel.
its funny we are having this conversation right when I read this.
notice how the conversation has moved on from "there was a cease fire on Oct 6th" to ya but those kids were in a war zone and proly doing bad things so they deserved it.
glad that we have established that no, there was not a ceasefire on Oct 6th. progress folks.
Israel’s largest trade union, the Histadrut, called a general strike for Monday to pressure the government — the first since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack that started the war. The strike is expected to shut down or disrupt major sectors of the economy, including banking, health care and the country’s main airport.
I don't want this to get lost in the other two side conversations. This is a big deal. Previously it was hard to quantify the outrage in Israel, as it seemed like it was mostly coming from the families of the hostages which is not at all indicative of the entire population (and the "poster wars", which might have been the families as well). From some quick googling, it sounds like this is a very big deal. 800,000 members and it was an important organization even before Israel existed.
They better send bibi to jail
lol at people that called Israel a democracy
notice how the conversation has moved on from "there was a cease fire on Oct 6th" to ya but those kids were in a war zone and proly doing bad things so they deserved it.
glad that we have established that no, there was not a ceasefire on Oct 6th. progress folks.
Your proof that there was no ceasefire before Oct 6th were reports about West Bank btw. Wait holy crap I just realized, you think that the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a shared government.
Anyway here you go on the proof that there was a ceasefire between Gaza's government (controlled by Hamas) and Israel. I hope you'll accept Al-Jazeera as a source. Idk they might be too zionist for you or some crazy crap like what you're trying with the HRW.
Now, you might find other ceasefire agreements that have had to be put in place since this agreement, but those ceasefires had to do with a ceasefire between Israel and the PIJ, not Hamas, which is a separate paramilitary group not in power in the government.
But of course I know you don't actually care, because you probably think that Jews are ontologically evil or something. But it seems every time it's some Palestinian terrorist group breaking the ceasefire. With all the fighting young Palestinian males end up doing, you'd think they'd form some kind of revolutionary group against Hamas and Islamists instead of joining these groups. Just a suggestion.
Your proof that there was no ceasefire before Oct 6th were reports about West Bank btw. Wait holy crap I just realized, you think that the West Bank and Gaza Strip have a shared government.
Anyway here you go on the proof that there was a ceasefire between Gaza's government (controlled by Hamas) and Israel. I hope you'll accept Al-Jazeera as a source. Idk they might be too zionist for you or some crazy crap like what you're trying with the HRW.
the West Bank is part of Palestine the last time I checked.
Ah yes the source that HRW is pro-Israel is some random schizo lefty. Great work sir.
a random schizo lefty that HRW attempted to collaborate with. and who denied them bc he has integrity.
Well this sure is not going great for Israel.
once all the hostages and POWs are dead then its smooth sailing. trust the plan.
They are a tiny country fighting a 4 front war for survival against an enemy who has vowed their total destruction, where most of the Western world is writing blank checks and supporting the people trying to destroy them, and forcing them to fight with 1 hand behind their back.
Under the circumstances, about as good as can be expected.
You’re equivocating. When Israel seeks a ceasefire with Gaza, they don’t do so by consulting with the West Bank. And currently the West Bank and Israel have a security agreement, so them going in and taking care of terrorists in the region most likely has the blessing of the Palestinian Authority.
What I will say is that I do not agree at all with any new settlements and believe it to be at least arguably a violation of international law, if at least a morally bad act.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/world...
Also it’s funny that Trump basically wanted to help Israel annex large swaths of the West Bank according to this article, but the election of Biden likely stopped those plans.
a random schizo lefty that HRW attempted to collaborate with. and who denied them bc he has integrity.
Yeah exactly. A random schizo that HRW was trying to give legitimacy to by collaborating with, and we see their obsequiousness to Palestinians curried them no favors. Because there’s always a “more leftist” position on Palestine you can stake out.
Like a two state solution? Zionist.
Think we should criticize Hamas and condemn Oct 7? Zionist.
Think we should have a one state solution? Racist, clearly we should kick the Jews out back to Europe.
And on and on it goes. The purity tests are never ending.
My position would actually be pretty far to the left twenty years ago. I believe in a two state solution including potentially giving back land that was illegally settled upon. But I’m not going to pretend that Hamas doesn’t indiscriminately target civilians or that Israel is the bad guy for fighting against terrorists.
Early this year there were protests of Hamas in Gaza, I do not know if they specifically mentioned ending the war. They did not get the same press and we can all guess how Hamas reacted.
Great... do you have a link?
The only one I could find was before 10/7, and that was a protest against Hamas, not against the war (because it hasn't started yet). And that's great... I'm glad they had the courage to do it. But you can acknowledge surly, there's lots of protests BY ISRAELI's against their government, and specifically their leader.
I'm not seeing any by Palestinians protest against Hamas in Palestine wanting an end to this war. Look forward to seeing your link... ty.
I don't want this to get lost in the other two side conversations. This is a big deal. Previously it was hard to quantify the outrage in Israel, as it seemed like it was mostly coming from the families of the hostages which is not at all indicative of the entire population (and the "poster wars", which might have been the families as well). From some quick googling, it sounds like this is a very big deal. 800,000 members and it was an important organization even before Israel existed.
It's a huge deal.
Israeli's are so outraged by what happening, they are willing to disrupt major parts of their economy. It's more than just the return of the hostages. That of course is extremely important to them. But they don't want war.
I looked earlier and could not find it. As I said, it did not get the same amount of press (hardly surprising) and search results are dominated by other protests.
Hamas likely put an end to these quickly. Israel is a democracy, so freedom of speech is protected and these type of protests are allowed.
Found one of the ones I was looking for:
Here's an article that is related to the topic, also has an article inside on overall anger towards Hamas in Gaza:
1) Because we are doing nothing to Qatar and we are paying UNRWA, which directly funds hamas
2) because they can't deal with Gaza + WB + Hezbollah + Iran +western money used against it all at the same time
and internal opposition
and other middle east countries that might be unable to resist the growing anger of their popualtions
and maybe turky
and maybe Azerbaijan
It's an epically stupid risky path netanyhau is following
and internal opposition
and other middle east countries that might be unable to resist the growing anger of their popualtions
and maybe turky
and maybe Azerbaijan
It's an epically stupid risky path netanyhau is following
yes they need help which we should provide, while we should stop helping Israel enemies.
Definitely somethign netanyhau and his supporters should have paid a lot more account to
Hemorrhaging support while enabling the terrorists/extremists was, as I may have mentioned, a very stupid thing to do
Definitely somethign netanyhau and his supporters should have paid a lot more account to
Hemorrhaging support while enabling the terrorists/extremists was, as I may have mentioned, a very stupid thing to do
Killing terrorists and destroying their power base doesn't enable terrorism no matter how often this nonsense gets expressed.
ok then your concerns are wrong. Netanyahu is very good at the killing and destroying bit
Killing terrorists and destroying their power base doesn't enable terrorism no matter how often this nonsense gets expressed.
No one disagrees with this. The disagreement is on where the power base is. Hamas's power base is not the men it had militarized and radicalized at the start of this conflict, they are easily replaceable and Israel has set the foundation so that Hamas will have a massive amount of volunteers.
No one disagrees with this. The disagreement is on where the power base is. Hamas's power base is not the men it had militarized and radicalized at the start of this conflict, they are easily replaceable and Israel has set the foundation so that Hamas will have a massive amount of volunteers.
Actually many people claimed in this thread that by killing a lot of Hamas terrorists, you radicalize more people so at the end you get more terrorists. Which is complete non sense of course but is a strong (for gullible people) narrative used all the times to oppose fighting back against terror.
And I am agreeing with that sentiment in the post you quoted, because Hamas's power base is not being weakened; it is being strengthened. You mentioned two things, not one:
