Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Hasn't that school been targeted a view times now? Maybe I'm making it up but swear it sounds familiar.
Here is the short article. People can quickly judge for themselves if it makes a valid argument.
Note that checkraisedraw has not critiqued any part of the methodology, other than to say it's stupid.
It makes sense that the bombing campaign will be like all other attacks on civilian infrastructure -- large numbers of deaths beyond the immediate blasts.
You guys are ignoring that bill asked how you would feel if /once 200k people were killed.
Here is the short article. People can quickly judge for themselves if it makes a valid argument.
Note that checkraisedraw has not critiqued any part of the methodology, other than to say it's stupid.
It makes sense that the bombing campaign will be like all other attacks on civilian infrastructure -- large numbers of deaths beyond the immediate blasts.
I’d like to see you defend the methodology of “let me just multiply the current deaths by 3x and add it to the total deaths. Oh by the way it could be way more than this too!”
It is the most braindead methodology I’ve ever heard of.
Furthermore lefties are lying about what the article says. They are claiming that it says that 186k people had already been killed by the IDF/Israel when it says nothing of the sort.
Here is the short article. People can quickly judge for themselves if it makes a valid argument.
Note that checkraisedraw has not critiqued any part of the methodology, other than to say it's stupid.
It makes sense that the bombing campaign will be like all other attacks on civilian infrastructure -- large numbers of deaths beyond the immediate blasts.
Not that I agree that the article is or isn't stupid but that's his m.o. In another thread he commented on an article he clearly didn't read, looked stupid and then tried to move the goal posts.
Hasn't that school been targeted a view times now? Maybe I'm making it up but swear it sounds familiar.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Fakhoor...
yes probably
Not easy to stop that, Iran being a large sovereign state, and the Israelis certainly did little or nothing in the diplomatic or military field to stop it, because it suits Israel to have 'an enemy we can't be asked to negotiate with.' Israel's sole interest is in seizing ever more territory in the West Bank (for which they fought the 1967 war) and never giving any of the settlements back, so they require an enemy they can't be asked to negotiate with. And the intolerable siege conditions they chose to impose on Gaza mean that Hamas is arguably their creation as much as Iran's.
Not that I agree that the article is or isn't stupid but that's his m.o. In another thread he commented on an article he clearly didn't read, looked stupid and then tried to move the goal posts.
You literally misread a post I made because you have some vendetta against me for not being insanely anti-trans. Can you stop sniping from the sidelines and make adult arguments?
lefties are lying about what the article says. They are claiming that it says that 186k people had already been killed by the IDF/Israel when it says nothing of the sort.
What I actually wrote:
Why were all the fishing boats destroyed, and the water system and all the universities, the schools, churches, mosques, 70% of the housing, and what will probably be 200,000 killed?
Incidentally, one of the co-authors of the piece is "a member of the editorial board of the Israel Journal of Health Policy Research and of the International Advisory Committee of the Israel National Institute for Health Policy Research." It's an authoritative piece, and there are ZERO counter estimates.
With so many bodies still under rubble, and indirect deaths still ongoing, the only way to arrive at a count is to estimate, based on patterns in other conflicts. The current complainant does not dispute that 40,000 is a great under count, he just blows smoke.
You literally misread a post I made because you have some vendetta against me for not being insanely anti-trans. Can you stop sniping from the sidelines and make adult arguments?
Didn't misread ****. You commented on a paper you didn't read and then when called out on you said ''well at the very least 36% aren't even interested''.
But as always. Nice try.
What I actually wrote:
Incidentally, one of the co-authors of the piece is "a member of the editorial board of the Israel Journal of Health Policy Research and of the International Advisory Committee of the Israel National Institute for Health Policy Research."
With so many bodies still under rubble, and indirect deaths still ongoing, the only way to arrive at a count is to estimate, based on patterns in other conflicts. The current complainant does not dispute that 40,000 is a great under count,
Again, you're arguing with someone who doesn't read the articles or paper linked and just moves the goal posts anytime he's called out for not reading. Don't you think it's funny he's accused everyone he's argued against of either not reading his responses or not finishing high school?
The Palestinian leadership doesn't want a state, even with the 1967 borders which aren't even on the table. In their mind a Palestinian state would weaken their claim to all of Israel, and for many persons would threaten their ability to steal refugee aid money. The people making decisions in Palestinian society are completely satisfied with their forever war, funded by the West, that the rest of the world refuses to let Israel win.
Now, let Israel win or change the aid dynamics; and suddenly c
Given that it is Hamas's stated goal to destroy Israel, and take over its land, this would completely follow. It therefore make sense that peace is completely impossible with Hamas in power. Yet, the world continues to prop up Hamas with money and weapons. I speculated as to why this bizarre reality exists, but the hypocrisy of much of the world still makes my jaw drop...
What I actually wrote:
Incidentally, one of the co-authors of the piece is "a member of the editorial board of the Israel Journal of Health Policy Research and of the International Advisory Committee of the Israel National Institute for Health Policy Research."
With so many bodies still under rubble, and indirect deaths still ongoing, the only way to arrive at a count is to estimate, based on patterns in other conflicts. The current complainant does not dispute that 40,000 is a great under count.
I said LEFTISTS are lying about what the article actually said, not that you lied about what it said.
And no, you don’t get to do back of the napkin math, send it to the Lancet journal as a letter to the editor, and then have everyone get to claim that the Lancet journal is saying xyz.
Gaza is receiving a ton of humanitarian aid right now, so I don’t actually know that it can be compared to other wars when it comes to indirect deaths. Also, if this argument wants to be taken seriously, then it would go into past methodology used to estimate indirect deaths and why it will apply to Gaza going forward. They even took the small end of the estimation in order to give more credence to their estimation, which just shows how little confidence they have in that estimation. Why not just take a 10x figure if it’s between 3-15x? 440000k could be killed by the end of the war etc. Because it’s not a serious way of actually estimating those figures.
Didn't misread ****. You commented on a paper you didn't read and then when called out on you said ''well at the very least 36% aren't even interested''.
But as always. Nice try.
Again, you're arguing with someone who doesn't read the articles or paper linked and just moves the goal posts anytime he's called out for not reading. Don't you think it's funny he's accused everyone he's argued against of either not reading his responses or not finishing high school?
Yes I know you wanted to propagate the lie that kids are being handed out trans affirming healthcare like candy, and I pointed out that 86% of the trans youth surveyed in that study weren’t even on medication. That wasn’t denied by anyone, instead they wanted to make a technicality about those youths not having access, which did nothing to detract from my point at all.
None of this has anything to do with an Israel/Palestine discussion and I have reported your posts as off topic.
Yes I know you wanted to propagate the lie that kids are being handed out trans affirming healthcare like candy, and I pointed out that 86% of the trans youth surveyed in that study weren’t even on medication. That wasn’t denied by anyone, instead they wanted to make a technicality about those youths not having access, which did nothing to detract from my point at all.
None of this has anything to do with an Israel/Palestine discussion and I have reported your posts as off topic.
Oh no after being wrong and getting called out on it once again he has reported my posts as off topic.
Guess third time is the charm. Checkmate once again.
I said LEFTISTS are lying about what the article actually said, not that you lied about what it said.
And no, you don’t get to do back of the napkin math, send it to the Lancet journal as a letter to the editor, and then have everyone get to claim that the Lancet journal is saying xyz.
Gaza is receiving a ton of humanitarian aid right now, so I don’t actually know that it can be compared to other wars when it comes to indirect deaths. Also, if this argument wants to be taken seriously, then it wou
I agree that they should have taken the high end.
Sure, based on what methodology? Just multiplying the number by the other number? Should we actually explore where they got these totals from and whether it’s comparable to Gaza? Are there ways to prevent the indirect deaths that can be implemented by the international community such that we learn from the wars that are on the high end?
I’m just wondering if any of these questions ever crossed their minds.
Also you realize that during WW2 plenty of German civilians died because of the invasion, are you under the impression that no civilian dies in war? Have you ever thought about the morality of war for more than five seconds or did you just decide “war is bad” is an unimpeachable moral statement without any qualification?
The Allies committed all kinds of horrifying war crimes that would be considered unacceptable today, so idk where you're going with this tortured analogy but it isn't helping me feel better about the growing piles of dead children.
The Allies committed all kinds of horrifying war crimes that would be considered unacceptable today, so idk where you're going with this tortured analogy but it isn't helping me feel better about the growing piles of dead children.
Ok but you also cry about dead Nazis too apparently so your opinion is worthless, from a moral perspective.
I was too brief. My point is that there have been many clearly unjust wars where the death toll was much lower. I doubt that you can successfully classify this war as “just” with such a high death toll. Killing hundreds of thousands of people is a symptom that your top priority in waging war is not justice.
Sure, based on what methodology? Just multiplying the number by the other number? Should we actually explore where they got these totals from and whether it’s comparable to Gaza? Are there ways to prevent the indirect deaths that can be implemented by the international community such that we learn from the wars that are on the high end?
I’m just wondering if any of these questions ever crossed their minds.
I dont think you prevent death by destroying all the hospitals, targeting health care workers, destroying food supplies, clean water, and blockading medicine and cleaning supplies.
Hamas takes the lion’s share of any blame for blocked aid
