Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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30514 Replies
ok guys look, have you considered that the people dying just arent as smart as their killers? maybe they are beneath, or less than, or even...under.
Well, the reality on the ground would support this argument, just in the opposite way you argue.
Millions of Arabs live in Israel under full protection of the law. If anything, they are afforded special privilege, as they dont have to participate in mandatory military service like Jews do.
Whereas in "Palestine" no Jews are permitted except captured hostages, who are afforded zero rights.
Jews are permitted in Palestine and even in Gaza and many have spent lots of time there. they have even gone to classes at the Universities there, including with the professor Refaat Alareer whose assassination was one year ago yesterday with an Israeli guided missile. remember that many in this thread argued that these missiles save lives.
Twitter to the rescue again to provide empirical proof via random tweets that vic, as always is right.
its not hard to be right. just oppose fascism and mass murder. that Western liberals have so many problems with these simple principles is very telling.
anyway, we can make a bet on if this dude went to Gaza and went into classes with Refaat. maybe all the videos are deep fakes!
I actually didnt know that he lived there for 3 years. but many activists have lived in Gaza and the West Bank for long periods, including Jews.
those activists are far more at risk from Israel than from the Resistance.
Russia has announced that Assad is on his own. And Israel and the US are not permitting IRI proxies to join the fight on Assad's behalf. It looks like it might not even matter if they did, as Assad's soldiers are mass defecting.
Looks like Syria is done. Just another example of hitching your wagon to losers, in this case the IRI/Hezbollah, and getting bad results.
I think I have mentioned this before, but maybe not. But one does wonder if this is part of some larger geopolitical realignmen
Pretty hard to pick a side to root for in this one. I was worried about the Kurds with Trump coming in as I think the US forces there are helping to deter movement on them. I guess round 2 will be the winning force fighting it out to see who gets final control.
looks like Syria is about to be Libya part 2.0. stay tuned for the slave markets and mass sectarian mass murder. this is what the West does to ancient societies.
breaking news, the Pope just did an antisemitism
Well, like you said, you can always find something that happened first, either way. Even the "Nakba" was predated by a tremendous amount of violence going both ways between jews and Muslim Arabs in this part of the world.
From a 40,000 foot view perspective, this has been going on (almost exclusively one way until recently) hundreds of years, since this part of the region was Islamized and the Jews that didn't convert become dhimni under an apartheid regime that lasted formally and informally
Right, and if we wish for there to ever be peace in the region or the world for that matter we have to call a spade a spade.
If there is overwhelming evidence that one group is subjecting another, we have to take that evidence into consideration and act accordingly.
That or we can blindly ignore the facts because they don’t suit our motives and keep pretending that all is well.
I’m sorry, but it shouldn’t matter which “side you are on” to accept that for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, it isn’t.
its millions of Palestinians but your point is well said. its hard to realize that most people simply believe they are lesser beings and deserve to be subugated and stripped of all freedom and autonomy. its why you get people citing bullshit things like "one side has the highest recorded IQs" (I mean cmon, might as well break out the skull calipers). its White Supremacy and the arguments in this thread would be the same in Columbus's time, the Reconquista, antebellum USA, Jim Crowe USA, Boar South Africa, and other times that shall remain nameless.
The idea that Jews and Arabs in Israel/Gaza have distinctly different IQs is an extremely dubious proposition; amazing how the calipers crowd can't even grasp basic genetics.
ok guys look, have you considered that the people dying just arent as smart as their killers? maybe they are beneath, or less than, or even...under.
Not sure if it’s due to differences in intelligence, but Israel does take much greater care when defending their population compared to their enemies.
FWIW I suspect the Palestinians could form a state if they actually tried. But there has never been any real attempt to do so. The focus has always been destruction of Israel first and foremost, and then statehood later; which is why even when Arabs controlled the West Bank/Gaza from 1948 to 1967 there was no movement to form a Palestinian state. Many Palestinian leadership groups have actually opposed statehood if it was conditional on making peace with Israel.
If there is overwhelming evidence that one group is subjecting another, we have to take that evidence into consideration and act accordingly.
That or we can blindly ignore the facts because they donÂ’t suit our motives and keep pretending that all is well.
I’m sorry, but it shouldn’t matter which “side you are on” to accept that for hundreds of thousands of Palestinians, it isn’t.
I would say you accept a perspective which blindly ignores facts that don't suit your perspective.
Even if we disagree how we got here, and who is to blame (I personally blame the UN for providing such perverse incentive structures); the facts are that "armed resistance" (including but not limited to suicide bombings, hostage taking, cross border raids to murder Jews in their homes, firing tens of thousands of rockets into Israel, militarizing your entire society, intense antisemitic propaganda) are providing terrible results, and have been for decades.
The Jews aren't going back to Poland. Palestine will never be free from the river to the sea. Al Aqsa will never be liberated (Same as Constantinople and Alexandria will never be liberated. Some history you just cant undo). And all the Islamist propaganda and brainwashing their society is immersed in is serving no productive purpose at all.
And the sooner Palestinian leadership (and society itself) accepts reality, gives up trying to destroy Israel, and works towards realistic, reasonable objectives; the sooner results will get better.
And if this doesn't happen, we can expect another 80 years of poor results.
anyone got some analysis on the syria events/the intersection with i/p?
from what i can make out the axis of L have taken another L and vic seems mad about it, so probably safe to assume the fall of assad is a good thing, but keen to hear more
anyone got some analysis on the syria events/the intersection with i/p?
from what i can make out the axis of L have taken another L and vic seems mad about it, so probably safe to assume the fall of assad is a good thing, but keen to hear more
Israel gains massively if Iran loses the land route to supply Hezbollah.
Putin loses massively if he loses the naval base in the Mediterranean.
the above is why Vic and friends are sad.
Fall of Assad is terrible for Qurds though which are our friends and allies. and the islamist fanatics who are going to replace Assad if they manage to get Syria aren't our friends either.
Im pretty ambivalent really. historically, its pretty bad when ISIS takes over. but maybe this time it will be ok.
anyway, Israel took the opportunity to steal some Syrian land. gotta respect the hustle at some point.
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/12/08/...
It's not ISIS but it's similar islamist fanatics. And yes it's generically bad for the local population.
But given I don't care in the slightest about the local population and I exclusively care about the effects on western countries and allies it's pretty clear it's better than Assad for us because of the aforementioned weakening of enemies of the west, Iran and Russia.
Israel rightly does its own self interest with our green light to do it.
I know the West likes to export its ideas on how democracy should work, but I'm not sure the UK exporting the concept of having an awful leadership and replacing them with someone worse to Syria is a great idea
Israel is rolling tanks into Syria now and imposing law on the local civilians.
anyone got some analysis on the syria events/the intersection with i/p?
from what i can make out the axis of L have taken another L and vic seems mad about it, so probably safe to assume the fall of assad is a good thing, but keen to hear more
Israel gains massively if Iran loses the land route to supply Hezbollah.
Putin loses massively if he loses the naval base in the Mediterranean.
the above is why Vic and friends are sad.
Fall of Assad is terrible for Qurds though which are our friends and allies. and the islamist fanatics who are going to replace Assad if they manage to get Syria aren't our friends either.
All true but still very good for Israel in the short term
I do see them wanting to regain the Golan heights at some point but I still cannot fathom a scenario where the new regime becomes an ally of Iran, at least not in the next two decades.
So overall it's good for Israel
Whether or not it is good for the people of Syria or not, that i cannot answer
All true but still very good for Israel in the short term
I do see them wanting to regain the Golan heights at some point but I still cannot fathom a scenario where the new regime becomes an ally of Iran, at least not in the next two decades.
So overall it's good for Israel
Whether or not it is good for the people of Syria or not, that i cannot answer
first the golam zone was supposed to be a buffer zone now the golan itself needs a buffer zone , is that how expansion works ?
