Patrick Leonard stating the hard truth "you cannot longer make it in online poker"
Patrick leonard, one of the best online mtt players sayed a couple of day ago this reality, literally stated on the podc
He just seems disingenuous. He says different things in similar situations involving different people. Why is he running a stable still if he truly believes what he says? A stable is already a hard business to run in a good poker environment because of degens quitting on you, or refusing to pay what they owe with you having little recourse to get paid. If he truly believes what he says he would shut down his stable as theres 0 percent chance it is a profitable venture when "you cannot make it in
Actually i was thinking the same thing lol, i applied to bitB and of course rejected, but these are the requeriments:
"We would love to hear from you again in the future if you've managed to produce consistent results in MTTs at $30-40+ ABI winning at 15-20%+ Total ROI"
So i think he still believes that there are still very good players that can make that amount of roi.
I dont think everyone realizes how much it sucks to wake up 6am to work you hate, get home tired, get taxed to death and have very little free-time.
And those sweet easy office jobs are in risk of being replaced by AI. But ofc poker is full of risk too...
Free time is the ultimate luxury.
He just seems disingenuous. He says different things in similar situations involving different people. Why is he running a stable still if he truly believes what he says? A stable is already a hard business to run in a good poker environment because of degens quitting on you, or refusing to pay what they owe with you having little recourse to get paid. If he truly believes what he says he would shut down his stable as theres 0 percent chance it is a profitable venture when "you cannot make it in
From my understanding they changed it to CFP. So he is offering coaching nothing more, the risk is on the players joining.
I did analysis on probably more than a thousand players,sharkscope advanced statistics searching for patterns on game selection so I feel I can speak on the matter. A lot of the highstake online MTT games are ego games and the amount of variance people take for the $ amount they make per game is insane.
I dont think everyone realizes how much it sucks to wake up 6am to work you hate, get home tired, get taxed to death and have very little free-time.
And those sweet easy office jobs are in risk of being replaced by AI. But ofc poker is full of risk too...
Free time is the ultimate luxury.
Very true.
As someone who played professionally for 15 or so years, I set up some ecommerce companies where I also could wfh/anywhere and as long as I put the effort in you can operate much like a poker player. Poker also gave me quite good instincts and other business acumen. Freedom is vastly more important than money, and as someone who hasnt had a job since I was 21, the thought of waking up at 6 to take public transport to an office is out of the question, forever. What I'm saying itt is that there are other ways and things you can do at the same time as poker, online poker is not getting more lucrative it's getting harder, live poker is actually ok imo, I'm simply giving some advice as someone who has done all these things, but for some reason people are giving me **** for it, because I'm sorry but being a 200/500nl grinder or life isn't a great choice and settling for 80kpa isn't either. You can still play, I play more than 20hrs a week easily, but my results are lackluster because it's not my everything.
I dont think everyone realizes how much it sucks to wake up 6am to work you hate, get home tired, get taxed to death and have very little free-time.
And those sweet easy office jobs are in risk of being replaced by AI. But ofc poker is full of risk too...
Free time is the ultimate luxury.
Yeh - time truly is the most important asset. Feel bad for the office guys grinding things out hating it - so many avenues these days online to make money from your home. The other issue is as your salary grows working for someone, you become a bigger target to get fired/replaced by someone younger for much cheaper. If a 25 year old out of college can be trained in a couple years at 1/3 of the price you can surely bet they're going to get rid of you. I don't think poker is the way to go these days but it's a good training ground to develop skills to find the right path.
Patrick leonard, one of the best online mtt players sayed a couple of day ago this reality, literally stated on the podcast Solve for why "I would say the previus years to anyone that put the effort and study to get better at poker and try to make a living, that is possible to do it" this year i think is really impossible to anyone to do it, maybe the 0.01% that runs hot would make it" and stating afterwards that he cant understand anyone not cheating with rta or using bots online if they want t
BREAKING NEWS! this has been true for years. lol.
I dont think everyone realizes how much it sucks to wake up 6am to work you hate, get home tired, get taxed to death and have very little free-time.
And those sweet easy office jobs are in risk of being replaced by AI. But ofc poker is full of risk too...
Free time is the ultimate luxury.
So how many hours do you think grinders that make good money actually grind a week ?
What is that free time you on about my man?
what is your routine plz enlighten me how we can have so much free time playing poker and still make comfortable living....
Sleep under a bridge have nothing to spend but sure am enjoying my free time because it truly is the ultimate luxury.....
So how many hours do you think grinders that make good money actually grind a week ?
What is that free time you on about my man?
what is your routine plz enlighten me how we can have so much free time playing poker and still make comfortable living....
500 online / 1k live is about the comfort zone where you make enough ev/result with relatively small working hours, ie the poker dream.
yeah idk. alot of upsides and downsides to gambling for a living, as there are in anything. i do think these threads (and potentially this forum) end up populated by people that are bitter towards poker.
i think there are better avenues to pursue is financial compensation is the biggest driver of your values, but honestly the world is changing quite rapidly and i think the amount of time it would take to start a new career path and make 100k a year is quite a bit more intensive than people in thi
There's this weird idea that if you're good at/cut out for one thing, you must also be so at other things. I always think of some wall street bros asking Ivey why he didn't come to WS and make bigger money. They seemed to think it was like playing for The Colorado Rapids when you could be playing for Real Madrid, rather than two different sports, which I think is the correct comparison.
Personally, I was a total flop with real jobs. I never even got an interview for a nice office job, though I applied to many with OK if not great qualifications. Maybe I'm bad at resumes. I would have struggled anyway. As someone else mentioned, waking up early morning every day--just that alone would have been brutal as I'm kind of an insomniac. I've done fairly well gambling though.
The inevitable guy who has to insist that making 100k in a midsized city in a first world country is hell on earth always tilts me a bit.
There's this weird idea that if you're good at/cut out for one thing, you must also be so at other things. I always think of some wall street bros asking Ivey why he didn't come to WS and make bigger money.
i get asked this all the time and my response is if any hedge fund gives me an offer i'll take it
There's this weird idea that if you're good at/cut out for one thing, you must also be so at other things. I always think of some wall street bros asking Ivey why he didn't come to WS and make bigger money. They seemed to think it was like playing for The Colorado Rapids when you could be playing for Real Madrid, rather than two different sports, which I think is the correct comparison.
Personally, I was a total flop with real jobs. I never even got an interview for a nice office job, though
it's different yet very similar, I mean I haven't done that much trading but I feel like I could be pretty good at it if I enjoyed it enough that I became obsessed about it, I just happen to find it boring
I tried chess for 2 months and I got addicted pretty quickly and since it doesn't make money I stopped because it felt like I was wasting too much time but I think a lot of hobbies/jobs very similar to poker (combination of strategy and risk management) that strong poker player could be quite good at if they did put in the time and effort naturally
There's this weird idea that if you're good at/cut out for one thing, you must also be so at other things. I always think of some wall street bros asking Ivey why he didn't come to WS and make bigger money. They seemed to think it was like playing for The Colorado Rapids when you could be playing for Real Madrid, rather than two different sports, which I think is the correct comparison.
Personally, I was a total flop with real jobs. I never even got an interview for a nice office job, though
Well said. Many jobs do require a level of specific non-negotiable qualifications that will just filter out applicants without. Sure, you can be a sharp mind and possibly excel in the role without having these qualifications, but a company isn't going to give you that opportunity over someone who has the professional designation, etc. You won't even get into the position of having an interview to convince them your some type of prodigy ala Mike Ross in Suits. At least in the accounting and finance world that is how it works.
Working for yourself is totally different story of course. I can see the day trading comparison, but beyond that creating one's own business takes a level of skill and dedication that many do not possess.
I haven't agreed with a lot of what you've said ITT. But I wholeheartedly agree with you here. This has been my experience as well on the apps, after 2022.
Haha glad I got some brownie points for that then.
Tbh I dont know what there isn't to agree with, poker is harder than it was and the ceiling is lower (and by being lower means it depends on what you want out of life/where you live, if you think it is worth it), I dont think anyone can argue against that.
Haha glad I got some brownie points for that then.
Tbh I dont know what there isn't to agree with, poker is harder than it was and the ceiling is lower (and by being lower means it depends on what you want out of life/where you live, if you think it is worth it), I dont think anyone can argue against that.
you know full well that it's your claims that it's not possible to crush and make tons of money in online poker anymore without cheating.
you know full well that it's your claims that it's not possible to crush and make tons of money in online poker anymore without cheating.
Hi again mate. I really didn’t say it like that at all, re read my post, you’ve taken it out of context and are nitpicking small bits of my post and threading it into a strange narrative. I don’t think it’s possible to crush and make tons of money *as easy as it used to be*, obviously everyone knows that, and obviously there are people who make tonnes of money and don’t cheat - and I didn’t say everyone that wins cheats (I win, I don’t cheat), its just you’re now up against more people cheating (when you used to not be really, maybe some collusion yes but now it’s that plus solvers and RTA), people that don’t need to earn much as they live in cheaper places and more studied people than ever before, rake increases and sites ‘casinoning’ the games + less fish. That’s why it’s not the best path for a ‘career’.
I can confirm dappadan777 used to play mid/high stakes on European sites. With solvers/MDA/ RTA /Bots and the general amount of information out there online poker does not seem a good choice in 2025.
haha bumhunt we never engage in such practise,
All good I hope life is treating you well I am now in business home and abroad, I enjoyed this pod cast and pads is spot on,
Take me back to the days of pokerstove with a pencil and paper and reading the mathematics of poker, sitting on a 40k stack at 1k NL.
All the best buddy.
Patrick Leonard should probably try to fold AJo on a prefinal MTT table "in time"!
yeah if you want to easily clear 75k+ a year its def harder
but for a side profit or side hustle, its still doable. DN every year when he has to join a smaller wsop tourney says how crazy good the EV is for those things. he says those 800$ buyins or lower are really valuable
Maybe because he is trying to grow the game? He also says GG poker is a great site
It gradually gets harder and harder until its no longer worth it.
However, this does not happen in a vacuum.
One could argue the same is happening in job market or woman market.
Okay so breakdown your expenses - would love to hear. I'm raising a family of 4 myself so know the costs involved - 100k post tax is probably around 75k-80k for most. 0% chance you can get by on 6500/mo with a family of 4.
As someone who lives in Southern Europe, this is absolutely crazy for me. With 6500 of a family of 4 you would be living like a king here. You would pay rent, groceries, invest a bunch and still have money left for vacations and other stuff. The fact that there is 0% chance a family of 4 can get by on 6500 a month in the US is crazy for me (even with US prices).
As someone who lives in Southern Europe, this is absolutely crazy for me. With 6500 of a family of 4 you would be living like a king here. You would pay rent, groceries, invest a bunch and still have money left for vacations and other stuff. The fact that there is 0% chance a family of 4 can get by on 6500 a month in the US is crazy for me (even with US prices).
The sad part is the average US home price is 419k - just googled it. Say you're a first time home Buyer that puts 3.5% down and finance 400k at the average mortgage rate of 6.67%, that's roughly 26k in interest alone per year, or about 2200/mo. Add in taxes, mortgage insurance, insurance, principle payment, any HOA fees, and that average mortgage shoots up to about 3300/mo. We've also seen the price of goods in the US shoot through the roof post COVID - 6 rolls of Bounty paper towels is 30 bucks just for example. Can you live on 6500 mo for a family of 4 in the US? Maybe if you're on the low end of all these stats. If you live in cheaper states like West Virginia, have a house given to you, have a mortgage at 3% that you've been paying down, eat low level/cheap food, etc then I guess so. I can't come to that with a family of 4 but if others can that's great.
