Daniel Negreanu's very own containment thread. All things Danny go here

Mac and cheese story??

I am sure DN thinks he is fine playing $250K and $300Ks because he is highly ev+ in the last few years in them with the 2 wins.

I watched some of Day 2 of the WSOP $250K. I don't play high rollers, but it was obvious everyone wasn't playing perfectly and they weren't all Linus or whatever.

Maybe they were GTO players and didn't know that much about short stack tournament play. There were what I thought were clear errors preflop short stack, where they were too shove happy, maybe not wanting to play postflop short.

For example, there was an open shove for 24xBB from mp with AQo. This is pretty clearly better as a bet/4-bet, as you get chips from 3-bet bluffs. Then you have an easy fold to a cold 4-bet, which often has AQ dominated. You may induce some shoves, but you are ahead of the range that would shove but fold to an open shove. Yes, you have to play postflop if flat called.

Then I was really surprised to see a 3-bet shove for about 22xBB from the SB with QTs over an mp raise. The hand plays well and it seemed like a flat call with pot odds. A 3-bet/fold also seems better than a shove. If the 3-bet gets flat called, the hand plays well postflop with low spr. That wasn't as bad as the AQ hand, but didn't seem optimal.

So I am sure there are issues with tournament play, as well as reads, etc., beyond just playing perfect GTO postflop.

This is a pretty standard jam actually

Yea in fact the hand doesnt play well at all, gets in dominated spots a ton and would rather just jam to fold out KJ/QJ type hands that would stack you postflop if you call. 3b fold is terrible.

I saw two DN hands in the $250K that seemed weak. One he raised 88, cbet the A high flop and check/folded the turn. The other there was a limp, he completed in the SB with 65s and flopped an OESD. He called a flop bet from the limper and folded the turn. In both cases, his opponents had air. Think maybe he was playing as against a random in the ME and didn't see how opponents would exploit opportunities.

I don't play super high rollers, but I watch all the videos of them. When you are playing short stacked, you can't go straight by GTO. There are issues of committing your stack, and the play tends to be more cautious than cash games.

In the video of the 250K, there were several limped pots, maybe partly to avoid solver lines. Hook, who came in 5th, made obviously non-GTO plays preflop. Like he flatted on the button with 22 30xBB deep and twice raised 53o not near the bubble or anything.

I don't see how it's just about playing GTO. Otherwise, Ivey, Negreanu, and Blom wouldn't do well in them. The players who do well in them generally know GTO, but not just GTO. That is partly why high stake NLHE tournaments aren't dead like high stakes NLHE cash games are.

He folded 6 high to worse?

He probably could have gotten better no pair to fold. Various ways to play the OESD, but folding the turn bet seemed weak.

But the opponents had worse than 6 high?

Obviously, not. However with 6-high and a draw, it is a pretty good spot to bet or raise on some street and give the limper a chance to fold a hand that usually would win at showdown.

Nobody said that. His opponent had air doesn't mean he had worse than 6 high.

But the limper bet the turn.

Daniel decided that bluffing this person wasn't worth the tournament equity, that it wasn't likely to succeed enough to be profitable. But you know better despite not being able to repeat exact action/board cards, not knowing stack sizes, opponent tendencies, recent table action, or any physical tells, all of which that guided Daniels decision.

I looked at the hand. Had assumed it was a limp, as DN was plays 65s in the SB. Schindler with 5.4M minraises to 160 UTG+1 with ATo, Hook with 3M calls in HJ with KQo, Negreanu with 2.2M calls from SB with 65s. Flop is 744,r, giving Negreanu an OESD and BDFD. X,x,Hook bets 200K into 640K, Negreanu calls. Turn is a J, putting a 2-flush up. x. Hook bets 325K into 1040K, Negreanu folds. I think the call in the SB was questionable. I thought he had odds to call the turn and draw. Granted theoretically he could be drawing dead. Hook was betting small when checked to in position and could possibly have nothing, as he did. I thought it would be better to lead or checkraise as some point and anyway, he could call the small bets. I don’t agree with some of the bashing ITT, but some of the hands seemed to be played poorly.

What were the antes and blind structure?

What was DNs tournament EV for a call vs a fold, vs Schindler’s likely range?

You understand Tournament decisions aren’t solely based on pot odds, right?

It was 80/160/160. It didn't look good to me. Granted they make small bets in tournaments and people fold to them. Didn't seem good to fold the OESD to the bets from the in position player. Can't see how you can profitably call with 65s in the SB if you are going to fold to small bets when you make a decent draw. DN could maybe represent he hit the low board, although he shouldn't be calling wide like he did from the SB.

Not sure what this is, did you mean 80/160 w/16k antes? Or was it really three blinds?

In either case that increases the number of hands you can call profitably from the SB, by a lot.

He was OOP, he had a read we aren’t privy to. Every chip he puts in the pot costs him more than the last based on tournament equity. We need a lot more info before we can declare his play good or bad.

They use a BB ante. The BB posts the whole ante of one BB. 80/160/160 is standard now. You obviously haven't played live tournaments at all recently and haven't watched WSOP videos etc.

You may be right and he played it perfectly, but seemed weird to call with a low suited connector and play it so weak seeming.

True, but it does not change the math, antes in any form mean you need to call with wider ranges from the SB.

I never said he played it perfectly, or even well. I’m only saying we lack enough information to confidently praise or condemn his play. Tournament EV is incredibly important extra consideration that doesn’t come in to basic cash game analysis, and obviously since this is Daniel Negreaneu live reads are very important too. If your opponent bluff catches at a high rate, raising the turn is suicidal.

Dnegs had a pretty solid albeit straightforward day online in making day 2 of the GGWSOP Online Main Event

Is he in the money now? Where’s the best place to see updates other than his stream?

he finished around 120th in the main. Lost a big pot AIPF, Daniel's AA losing to A4s, he didn't recover from that.

Was a pretty gross one that. Think if he won that pot he would have been in the top 20 chip counts.

The stream was pretty bearable and him and Amanda had a pretty funny exchange about sex at one point. Dnegs certainly seemed more chill in the stream than usual.

I thought we were going to get an anal teeth feeding with that AA

Didn’t he make a day 2 of a 10k? When is that?

Monday the 30th.