Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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32054 Replies
I get where the Palestinians are coming from. For the leaders, grifting Western aid is a business first and foremost, and given the west just continues to give them money no matter how destructive they are to the Palestinian people, they have no incentive to course correct. And the people themselves are heavily conditioned to be antisocial religious zealots. They dont really have a chance.
I was speaking more to westerners like yourself. Western complicity is really the main thing that has kept the violent resistance movement going all these years, to no good end.
Palestine isn't Ireland. Palestine is completely dysfunctional from top to bottom because of their dedication to completely unreasonable expectations and demands, and everything is subsidized by the West allowing this. Cut off the unconditional subsidies and tacit support, and the society itself would be forced to act more reasonably; which would benefit everyone in the long run.
When the Ottoman Empire fell after the end of WWI; there was a small movement among Christian Greek (ethnic Greek) communities to retake Istanbul. But it was largely determined this was completely unrealistic and would just lead to endless wars to no productive end, and there was no international support and the movement never happened.
Ironically, the Turkish people themselves then engaged in tremendous genocide with the literal intent to make Turkey an ethnostate by killing everyone else, and this is still ongoing. And the world is indifferent.
I think the notion of spending 100's of billions to rebuild a place that will be a launch pad for missiles again is probably the definition of insanity.
In that sense I don't mind outside the box thinking on how you avoid that.
a euphemism that would make Carlin Orwell and [redacted] proud.
I think the notion of spending 100's of billions to rebuild a place that will be a launch pad for missiles again is probably the definition of insanity.
In that sense I don't mind outside the box thinking on how you avoid that.
I mean, we could kill every single Palestinian man, woman and child, that oughta do the trick right?
well that is what many in Israeli media have been calling for for months.
heres a famous TV host just not even bothering with the euphemisms.
Let the book burnings begin.
Israel is seizing books that already passed Israeli censorship.
I think they have to cut the budget now that it's highly probable UNRWA won't get the same amount of money it did get in the past anymore
Barak Ravid
@BarakRavid
������BREAKING: Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas has issued a decree on Monday revoking the payment system to families of Palestinian prisoners in Israeli prison or to families of Palestinian terrorists (AKA "Pay for Slay")
Why are Hamas not releasing hostages now?
bc Israel has not been even remotely abiding by the ceasefire terms and is openly bragging about resuming the mass murder and land theft.
I just dont see the vision of how things turn for the better traveling this path. I understand that many Palestinians and their supporters have been conditioned to be religious zealots and believe they are following God's will and if they keep the faith he will provide the necessary miracle to see Israel destroyed and them ascend. But for those of us that aren't religious zealots with such faith, I just don't see it.
Well, yes, and the mirror image of that mindset is found in Israel (and more so in its extra-territorial settlements).
more details of the explicit deception and depravity of the genociders
Well, yes, and the mirror image of that mindset is found in Israel (and more so in its extra-territorial settlements).
Putting aside moral concerns, it isnÂ’t obvious to me Israel is setting its citizens up for disaster in the same fashion Palestinian leaders have been for 80 years.
I understand for partisan purposes we like to frame Israel as being losers and Palestinians winners; but reality kind of leans the other way.
Turkey and Qatar are two other nations heavily involved in perpetuating the violent status quo, that you could argue are benefiting much more than Israel from it; as they are bearing no costs economically or diplomatically, but are achieving clear strategic goals playing both sides.
probably shouldnt conflate Jews with Israelis.
They have released the most alive, healthy hostages they have, and gotten concessions for doing so.
At this point, they have probably decided under the current hostage deal that releasing a bunch of hostages in horrible condition and/or dead probably works against their interests.
Keep in mind, their main objective is maintaining an iron grip on Palestinian society in Gaza and aid shipments. It is not the well being of the people.
Given their Indifference towards the Palestinian people, Even resumption of the war is probably preferable to them than releasing a bunch of hostages in poor condition under the current terms and having to face the negative PR for it.
dun, you dont have to guess, they literally told you why they arent releasing them and if you have been paying attention Israel has not been abiding by the ceasefire at all.
also they have killed over 100 people since the ceasefire. can you imagine if Hamas had shot a single bullet at the Israeli genociders?
dun, you dont have to guess, they literally told you why they arent releasing them and if you have been paying attention Israel has not been abiding by the ceasefire at all.
also they have killed over 100 people since the ceasefire. can you imagine if Hamas had shot a single bullet at the Israeli genociders?
I think you missed the part where Trump set new terms.
right. the Empire can never be trusted and they will never give anything up except by force.
I guess when you
Say it like that I
Really should
Assess things more and
Eventually come up with a more
Leveled out perspective
But that said it's
Anyone's guess how this will eventually go
Down
How do you feel
About this Vic?
Maybe Hamas should
Assess things more and
Say, maybe reconsider?
Generally speaking
OFC it's Israel's fault and
Ofc all that other stuff you said but
Dude, maybe Hamas should release the hostages. Before Israel flatten what's left of them?
They have released the most alive, healthy hostages they have, and gotten concessions for doing so.
At this point, they have probably decided under the current hostage deal that releasing a bunch of hostages in horrible condition and/or dead probably works against their interests.
Keep in mind, their main objective is maintaining an iron grip on Palestinian society in Gaza and aid shipments. It is not the well being of the people.
Given their Indifference towards the Palestinian people, Even r
This seems likely.
Those imperial Jews and Israelis. Really controlling huge portions of the globe. Victor is a great comedian lol.
Meh. I think it more likely the world just goes back to the pre 10/7 status quo, and other than providing moral support, aid and weapons from a distance; no one in the world will want to have anything to do with the people of Gaza. No one will want to trade with them, visit them, or allow them to visit. It will just be a bunch of empty moral bloviating from actors like Saudi Arabia, Ireland and Norway about how Palestinians need a state, with no one lifting a finger to make it happen (not tha
Which is why Trumps plan is a potential paradigm shift. I agree with all of the above unless an outside the box plan is implemented. If the Gazans want to sulk in their own ruins let them. If they start firing missiles again then decisive action will have to be taken.
I mean, we could kill every single Palestinian man, woman and child, that oughta do the trick right?
It seems the better way would be for the Gazans to leave on their own. Nobody wants them though so that puts a wrinkle in the plans. I've already made a good suggestion as to where they should go. Perhaps Trump will negotiate this.
Hamas, and more generally Palestinians, have spent the last 80 years relying on Western powers only judging Israel and giving them a complete free pass for grotesque behavior. In any other time, all Western leaders would be completely agnostic towards the obscene spectacles of the hostage release humiliation rituals and Hamas reneging on ceasefire terms. Having a US president hold Hamas to account for grotesque behavior is really a giant paradigm shift; and it is not clear how Hamas will respond.
In similar news, Abbas cancelling the "Pay for Slay" program is another paradigm shift. I dont know why it was cancelled, but it doesn't seem a coincidence that it was cancelled when Trump started cutting NGO aid. It would be pretty wild, but not particularly surprising, if American tax dollars have been directly paying for the "Pay for Slay" program the Palestinians have been engaged in for decades.
I really dont think we can underestimate how the hostage release humiliation rituals have completely hardened Israeli society against Hamas/Gaza/Palestinians. Possibly even more than 10/7 itself.
I know most of you have been conditioned to not view Israelis as human beings, so there is really nothing that could be done to Israelis that would move the needle much, but Israelis do view themselves as human beings so it is a big deal to them.
I honestly think some threshold has been passed where there is no going back. Gaza is never going to be allowed to be remilitarize with Hamas in charge and turned into a terror tunnel fortress and launching pad to attack Israel.
No matter how much western liberals want to just pretend 10/7 never happened and go back to the pre 10/7 status quo, it did happen and at some point they need to update their software for this new reality.
Trump is now saying that the Gazans will not have a right to return.
