GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

You really think they are the most dominant team of all time? The way i saw it Spurs were supposed to win all 5 games. This coulda been a sweep by the Spurs but they fumbled every end game.

Congrats to the knicks, but let's be real. Every game came to a coin flip only because the Spurs messed up. Otherwise Spurs sweep.

You're going to have to talk to FG about what constitutes being a dominant champion.

I mean he basically made it up so it fit the end result he wanted, and within a couple of years it's been proven horrible wrong (which everyone but him already knew).

many misconceptions itt

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Since Mike Brown is officially a goat coach, we can now say that the all-star duo of Lebron/Zydrunas made their first playoffs in 06' by adding a goat coach and a 22/5/5 all-defender that was better than 90' or 93' Pippen:

05' HUGHES.... 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN...... 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D
93' PIPPEN...... 18.6 PER... 0.132 WS/48.... 4.7 VORP.. 3.7 BPM... 19/8/6... 1st Team All-D

It's more help than MJ ever had

"The best basketball" has ALWAYS only been dynasties (3 in 5).

I only added dominant champions because it just so happened that no primary ballhandler had ever led a dominant champion either.

And now that a primary ballhandler finally did it, it does little to change the fact that primary ballhandlers generally don't have dominant title runs - this is still largely true.

But the reality is that playoff runs are OPPONENT-DEPENDANT and therefore largely meaningless in comparisons.. Again, they were never really a part of "the best basketball"... Only dynasties are, and since primary ballhandlers can't have them as 1st option, they're inferior to the best of other skillsets that can, like bigs and jumpshooters - this is why the top 10 is a subjective mix of the best bigs and jumpshooters ever, aka MJ, Kobe, Curry, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Jokic

I heard Wemby say that it sucks to wait another 100 games to get back to the Finals, but he's looking at it the wrong way.. Specifically , there's a lot of people that think he isn't all that great anymore, so every time he sees a hoop, it's an opportunity to show whoever is in attendance that the Finals was just a 5-game aberration, and he's still the best in the world.. He should thirst to see a rim anywhere he goes, so he can pull off his warmups and show everyone that he's still the best.. He has 100 redemption opportunities and he should revel in each one - throw it in everyone's face that he's still the best... 100 times... It'll be fun.

Ultimately, the only thing that matters for Wemby this summer is if he takes 500 turnarounds per day.

If he does, he'll be great and superior to peers like SGA, Jokic and Giannis.

But if he doesn't, he'll never separate himself... He simply must become a great 2-point jumpshooter, so he can score whenever he wants.. Even if he came back next year with a skyhook or some other shot - I don't care HOW he becomes an expert scorer - he just has to do it, and mastering the turnaround (and all it's interations) seems like the best way to go..

He simply needs to get a post game and he SHOULDN'T go to Hakeem for training- he should go to MJ or Dirk, or do it on his own.

^^^ opponent-dependant

Let me know when a primary ballhandler is the 1st option for the best basketball (dynasty)

I anticipate that most good players from previous eras that grew up on the BLACKTOP like Brunson did will be tougher and more capable of taking over today's more coddled era.. Brunson is basically old school and that's why he's so amazingly effective in today's game...

Magic and Curry say hello.

No you see you have to pretend that you'll let the other 4 players shoot the ball for it to be elite basketball, nothing else is even an option for playing winning basketball. So when the guy that takes 55% of the shots scores way more than the 2nd player you can say it was a hard carry.

Worthy and Kareem led the scoring for every regular season and every playoff run except 1 regular season.

And Curry was never a traditional primary ballhandler - his assisted rate is 45-55%!!!... He invented "3ball" and elite ball movement!!

So as usual, you're wrong on every count... Primary ballhandlers have never been 1st option for the best basketball.. The 1st options were Kareem, Jordan, Duncan and Curry (no ball-dominators/primary ballhandlers).

Since primary ballhandlers can't be 1st option for the best basketball, they're behind the best of other skillsets that can, such as bigs or jumpshooters.. That's why the top 10 is a subjective mix of the best bigs and jumpshooters ever, aka MJ, Kobe, Curry, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Jokic

Show me where Lebron successfully carried the scoring load on the championship level.

Show me where he beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (aka he never carried weak help over top teams).

The problem is that excessive ball-dominance can't beat top teams, so Lebron can't carry the scoring load vs top teams and needs a ton of scoring help... This is a problem because carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, so the GM can find the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction..

So Lebron prevents elite roster construction because he needs the most scoring help EVER - no one needed more scoring help than him, so I would never want to be his GM because Lebron's teams are the neediest teams ever, BY FAR.. In addition to not carrying the scoring load, Lebron turns everyone into spot-up shooter and therefore needs even MORE help...

So the guy is a disaster and it shows on the championship level, where he simply can't compete... He's 22-33 on the championship level (lottery record on the championship level) plus the goat choke and record loss, plus 0-8 on game-winners or tyers, so he's a JOKE on the championship level (can't compete on the championship level).

Btw, Wemby will never be truly great because he'll never get a post game.

Bookmark this post of you don't believe me.

Dominant post bigs ENTER THE LEAGUE as dominant post players - they never develop a dominant post game after entering the league.

So Wemby and his baby hands will NEVER be a post player and he'll always be a rich man's Shawn Bradley... So that's pretty decent, but never Kareem's caliber... Or even prime David Robinson - he'll always be dimensions below these guys and more like Shawn Bradley - a soft perimeter player - that's Wemby - get used to it - never expect too much from him again

You have such a simplistic view of basketball, Lebron led both teams in all major stats in 2016 against a 73 win team but that's not a carry because he passed the ball to teammates instead of taking 10 more shots?

Again, carrying the "star" category of scoring requires less stars, and therefore allows the GM to find the right defenders/others, aka elite roster construction..

So Lebron's inability to carry the scoring load prevents elite roster construction compared to Curry, Kobe, Duncan or Jordan, yet you're pretending it doesn't matter to you???... Lebron needs far more star help/scoring help, so he can't build defensive rosters like MJ or Curry, yet this doesn't matter to you???

It isn't a carry-job because he had an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention, so he never defeated max defensive attention.. Who cares that he averaged 1 more rebound than Love or 0.2 more steals than Kyrie - it means literally nothing except a statistical anomaly.. Heck, Jordan led the Bulls in all 5 categories for the entire 97' Playoffs and no one cares (edit: 0.4 rpg behind Rodman).

Finally, the only reason that the Cavs were down 1-3 is because Lebron wet the bed for the first 4 games with 24 ppg and 6 TO's per game...

No seriously..

How is the preseason favorite and the league's only super-team down 1-3 to a normal roster of 1 franchise player and sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo or Hornacek??.. The reason Curry was the only unanimous MVP in history is because he was carrying a 1-man team and +1800 preseason roster (15'), and a sidekick that under-produced 09' Mo or Hornacek..

Now when the facts are examined, it turns out that the league's only super-team was down 1-3 because Lebron averaged 24 and 6 TO's for the first 4 games.. This is similar to his 16 on 39% to get a 1-2 deficit in the 13' Finals.. Both chokes required historic teammate bailout... Ultimately, it's better to be good enough to get 1st Round knockouts (Jordan), than need lucky bailouts in the 12th round after getting dominated the entire fight.

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LEBRON

1st Round.......................... winning record

2nd Round........................ winning record

3rd Round......................... winning record

Championship level......... worst losing record ever

^^^ It's obvious that Lebron can't compete on the championship level.

Specifically, he has a lottery record on the championship level (22-33), which includes the goat individual choke, record team loss, and 100% futility on last possessions (0-8 on game-winners or tyers)... This is a comprehensive demonstration that Lebron can't compete on the championship level.

The reason that Lebron can't compete on the championship level is because his ball-dominant skillset reduces everyone's assists and increases their assisted rate, aka turns everyone into spot-up shooter... These spot-up roles crater everyone's assists and produce low assist teams that can't compete with the best ball movement teams..

Specifically, Lebron is 13-34 in the playoffs against ball movement teams like the Spurs, Warriors and Nuggets, while also getting upset by many 1-star teams (Dirk, Dwight, Ant, Booker)... He has a losing record with preseason favorites (3-4), Finals teams (4-6), all-star teammates (4-9), and 1 or 2 seeds (4-5).. Accordingly, no one in history underachieved roster talent like Lebron.

Wemby does not have "baby hands". WTF fallguy you couldn't be more wrong. His hands are the size of tennis rackets.

Championship Level worst ever? Worse than West and Baylor?

To be fair on FG, he's not good with good with size.

I'm a Jordan fan. He's the GOAT in the sense that he played 2 rounds of golf, smoked a few cigars, probably was playing cards last night, and could still drop 50 on you in the playoffs. The guy seemingly didn't sleep for like a decade.

Wemby needs more years to be in this conversation, but he's obviously very good.

Ll

Lol you guys are so funny.

I literally can't type because I keep laughing.

Okay, now compare those woman hands to Jordan, Bird, Webber, Shaq, or even mine.. I'm surprised Wemby's toothpick fingers don't break when he catches the ball.

There is no comparison - Wemby has tiny, fragile baby hands, which is why you don't see him palming the ball and owning guys.

You guys must have really tiny hands if you think Wemby has big hands... So I guess I'll amend my statement - YOU guys have baby hands and Wemby has kindergarten hands.. lol this is so funny

Agreed..

And btw, I'll mention this just for perspective:

Based on the Lebron standard, Wemby should team up with a ready-made Finals MVP like SGA (Wade) and then add KAT (Bosh).

Would you respect Wemby's accomplishments if he teamed up with SGA and KAT??... Would you say "wow, can you believe they made the Finals again - goat stuff..."

Because that's what we did with Lebron - he got props for NOT being able to make the Finals and needing to team up... Accordingly, since we give props for teaming up with opponents, Wemby should do it and take advantage

Nonchalantly

Yeah, Wemby's hands look just like this.

Babies have short stubby fingers. Wemby has long slender fingers. He literally has the opposite to baby hands and you got called out for being 100% wrong.