LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

And players aren't flying coach anymore either, or using out-dated training techniques, or playing 82 games, or expected to win with normal rosters of 1 franchise player.

Instead, today's player enjoys private jets and $2 million per year of training on their body, which includes testosterone, HCG, and EPO purchased by besties and trainers from the biggest supplier of PED's to athletes ever.. They also get to team up with opposing franchise players to form "super" teams of 3 franchise players on 1 team.

And yet despite all these advantages that the modern player enjoys, no one can match MJ's individual dominance or team dominance because today's hands-off, spaced-out beginner format produced simpleton skillsets of high-scoring ball-domination - this inferior skillset turns teammates into spot-up shooter, which prevents elite roster construction and producing the best basketball (dynasties or dominant champions).

Btw, the influx of more European players and the 3-point contest format has allowed many unathletic spot-up shooters to permeate the league that Jordan would feast on - there are more Caleb Martins and Korvers than ever before, while slow bigs are also forced to defend the perimeter now - all of this makes it easier for today's ball-handlers compared to prior eras.. So it's just a cupcake game now that the players from prior eras would destroy because they came up in a much tougher format of basketball.

Oh, yeah. The league is way less athletic than in Jordan's day.

Where have you gone, Bill Wennington?

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Lebron's 42 fits in nicely below Jordan's 43 below, which is more evidence that Lebron's peak capability remains less than Jordan's at every age:

And just a few days ago, Lebron dropped 35 in MSG, while 40-year old MJ dropped 39 in his last game at MSG.

So again, Jordan's peak performance is always higher than Lebron's... Meanwhile, his impact and plus-minus was still positive at 40, while Lebron is a huge negative this year (stat-padding).

So LeBron has 3 of the Top 6 despite playing less games?

Can't believe the Lakers traded a certainty for the HoF (because better than Pippen yo) for an injured centre. Also had to throw in a 1st round draft pick.

Here's Dirk Minnefield in college, who averaged 5 ppg in the NBA:

This standard gather-step dunk by high school player in the 80's was considered a travel - this particular player averaged 2 ppg in the NBA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sKKzyXn...

^^^^ these guys had cups of tea in the NBA but were just as athletic as anyone in today's game... This type of athleticism was standard for bench players in the NBA back then but people just don't realize it.. For example, most people don't know that Vinnie Johnson or World B. Free were rim-wreckers and posterizers because it's been so long since people saw them... People simply don't remember and have recency bias about today's players, but guys like Kenny Smith, TR Dunn, and so many others were just as athletic as today's players... For every bench warmer in today's game that can fly, there are bench warmers in previous eras that were amazing too - people just don't realize that - then of course you have the stars like Shaq, Kemp, Jordan and others that are more athletic than all of today's players..

Accordingly, the idea that today's game is so much more athletic is one of the biggest misconceptions ever and has zero evidence to support it.. It's just something that's nice to say, but the sprinting times, high jump and long jump distances/heights confirm that nothing as changed... Furthermore, the influx of Euro's and the 3-point format has produced a lot of unathletic Caleb Martins and Korvers on the floor at all times, along with slow bigs that must defend the perimeter - these things would create a field day for Jordan and other perimeter stars from previous eras.. Furthermore , it's the the additional traveling and carrying of today's game that allows more athletic plays like the "travel" in the 2nd gif above.. There's also youtube, fancy uniforms and great HD/angles to capture athleticism better on camera than previous eras could.. Better shoes and equipment also accounts for a lot (95% by some studies).

Finally, the best players in today's game are unathletic like Jokic, Luka and Curry because it's a hands-off, spaced-out beginner format that skilled players can destroy, aka Bird, Jordan, Kobe, Duncan, etc... These guys could dominate without spacing, so their skills and instinct were superior and would toy with today's easier format.
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Looks like 2

And Lebron needs another 12 years (literally) to pass Jordan in 40 and 50 point games.

Remember when everyone was like "lebron already has AD, so what more help could he need?.. Giannis???.. Luka???... Jokic???"...

And everyone laughed at this... But now it's actually happened - this fraud needs Luka frieking Doncic and he still won't have a dynasty, dominant champion or even a favorite!!!... We can already envision the underwhelming chemistry and needing more help.. That's because he's a vastly inferior basketball player then the best highly-assisted players like Curry or Jordan, who needed much less to win and produce great teams.

And again, if he was a real big like Karl Malone, then he would have a dynasty fit with Luka and therefore could win with any stiff at center - he wouldn't need a MONSTER like Marvin Williams...

Don't think I missed that sh*t - I caught a glimpse of Marvin, and what the bloody f***... The league is simply rigged and they must've had Marvin and all these deals ready to go for weeks... Think about it - the Lakers need to get rid of Westbrook and voila!!!.. They miraculously get saved... And then they get Luka and Monster Marvin..... Anyone that needs this much help is the biggest fraud in sports history - no one is better at losing or does it more often, or with more rosters, yet he's purported as the goat by the fraudulent media.

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Statistical Analysis of 40-year MJ and Lebron's 40-point games:

JORDAN....... 43/10/3/4/1 on 60%... +9... 1 TO... 43 of.. 89 pts (49%)... facing East champ and #1 defense
LEBRON'...... 42/17/8/1/1 on 56%... +7... 3 TO... 42 of 120 pts (35%)... facing lottery team and #9 defense

Without watching the game and just looking at the stats, we see that Lebron's threes were mostly unassisted ("lullaby" 3's), while his 2's were mostly assisted (transition).. We know that most of his 2's were transition because 33% of his points were transition (14 pts), while 18 pts were threes, so that leaves only 10 pts in the halfcourt, 8 of which were FT's - this leaves exactly 1 two-point field goal in the halfcourt..

This is weak offensive diversity in the halfcourt that won't be able to synergize with Luka.. Opponents can just get back on defense to cut down on his transition and understand that he likes the lullaby threes.. It's a tactic that bad 1-on-1 players use to score - if you don't believe me, just play someone that has trouble scoring and watch them try to lull you to sleep before taking a quick shot, smh

Words and words and words can't make 43/10/3 on 18 - 30 shooting better than 42/17/8 on 15 - 25 shooting.

Also, your above analysis could be better described as contextual/qualitative rather than statistical/quantitative, FYI.

Actually no. 3 of 6. I mean you can interpret your own posts correctly. More interestingly 5 of the top 8

Lots of words not even talking about what I wrote.

In above half the games. lol @ trying to say MJ was better after 40.

Trying to suggest Jordan was better aged 38 - 40 than LeBron is a profoundly silly position. We have the data, but you only need to watch a small amount of footage. One of these things is not like the other.

many misperceptions itt

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]League Averages[/url]

2025..... 113.9 ortg.. 113.2 ppg.. 99.0 pace.. 57.5 TS... Lebron scored 42 of 120 pts (35%) vs 25-25 team and #9 defense
2003..... 103.6 ortg.... 95.1 ppg.. 91.0 pace.. 51.9 TS... Jordan. scored 43 of ..89 pts (48%) vs 38-17 team and #1 defense

^^^^ So Lebron's peak performance at 40 is a joke compared to MJ's.

In addition to having inferior peak performance at 40, Lebron never dropped 51 and 45 in back-to-back games at 38 years old like Jordan did against the East champs (Nets) and Hornets.. Of course, Jordan 3-peated with 41 ppg, which is the goat peak..

[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats_per_game.html]League Averages[/url]

2025..... 113.9 ortg.. 113.2 ppg.. 99.0 pace.. 57.5 TS... Lebron scored 42 of 120 pts (35%) vs 25-25 team and #9 defense
2003..... 103.6 ortg.... 95.1 ppg.. 91.0 pace.. 51.9 TS... Jordan. scored 43 of ..89 pts (48%) vs 38-17 team and #1 defense

^^^^ So Lebron's peak performance at 40 is a joke compared to MJ's.

In addition to having inferior peak performance at 40, Lebron never dropped 51 and 45 in back-to-back games at 38 years old like Jordan did against the East champs (Nets) and Hornets.. Of course, Jordan 3-peated with 41 ppg, which is the goat peak..

LeBron is playing great. Real question now is "How will the Lakers rebuild around LeBron when Luka retires in 10 years?"

You missed some important info. I added it in for you.

None of that matters because Lebron's skillset is a perennial loser regardless of cast, so he's always going to lose catastrophically and need more help.. Once in a blue moon, a teammate or commissioner will bail him out, or he'll get to play 22-year old babies, or he'll be 2nd option (20').. But aside from these top percentiles of the run-good spectrum, he will lose and mostly catastrophically (upset loss, sweep loss, record loss, Finals loss).

The question you should start asking yourself is what excuse will you make for this year's catastrophic loss?.. Will it be age?.. But how so when we know he's juiced to the gills??... Will it be teammates?? How so when he just teamed up with the modern Magic after using up and spitting out the modern Duncan??.. What will your excuse be this time?

Jordan had 4 steals to Lebron's 1, and also better turnovers, plus/minus, and efficiency

Explain how he was more efficient.

FG%, BPM

and superior efficiency when all context is considered, such as his vastly superior burden and defensive attention (43 of 89 points)

so again, MJ had superior FG%, defense, turnovers, plus/minus, points and burden

Lebron is simply carried compared to MJ and cannot build anything - specifically, he can't carry the scoring load, so he needs carrying, and he can't build anything because his skillset turns everyone into spot-up shooter

FG%?

When Jordan shot the ball, he ended possessions favorably more often (FG%)... This has important ramifications like forcing the opponent to take the ball out of the net more often instead of a rebound that initiates a run-out and higher ORTG.

Could the best or 2nd-best players in today's game do this?

And much more..

Again, the guy on the end of the bench in previous eras could rip the rim off just like today's player, but people just have recency bias (see recent post for even better examples).

And consider that all of MJ's Finals opponents are equal or better than the Baby Thunder, old Spurs, 11' Mavs, and Butler's Heat, so Lebron's 4 chips with 2 star teammates is objectively inferior to MJ's 6 chips with 1 star teammate.. And the 98' Jazz actually demolished Duncan's Spurs after sweeping Shaq's 4 all-star Lakers.. So the comp argument holds no water - MJ would sweep any team in history with a 3rd star teammate like Lebron enjoyed from 11-17' (3-4), or a modern Duncan like 20-24' (1-5).
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Well on one leg mj was great .
Lebron got his 2 legs . He wouldn’t play injured .