LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)

^^^ And production...

Hornacek destroys Klay:

Regular Season

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html

Basketball-Reference.com

Jeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

..... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp on 33,964 min.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html

Basketball-Reference.com

Klay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

............... 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp on 20,380 min.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts


Playoffs

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html

Basketball-Reference.com

Jeff Hornacek Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

..... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp on 4766 min.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html

Basketball-Reference.com

Klay Thompson Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Draft Status and more | Basketball-Reference.com

............... 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp on 4570 min.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts

And Reggie destroys Hornacek (too lazy to put Miller's numbers up there right now, but they blow Hornacek's away)...

Reggie and Ray Allen are more comparable, with Reggie still winning...

Reggie was the "Curry" of the 90's, which is why he nearly beat 2 goat teams (98' Bulls and 00' Lakers) with no all-stars and had many historic runs with basically no all-stars (Dale Davis was 1x all-star I think, but he basically had nothing).

Proof that LeBron James was able to properly distribute assists to his teammates and not dominate the ball, when the roster and scheme call for it.

Also, proof that he could carry the scoring load, when necessary:

‘13 LeBron playoffs…… 25.9
‘13 Wade playoffs……… 15.9

Looks like LeBron James, being the versatile player that he is, could do it all.

Let me know when you find someone from your anti-LeBron network that believes LeBron averaging 0.2 (yes 0.2; that decimal point is supposed to be there and it is not a typo) fewer assisted field goals per game destroys team chemistry and means LeBron could not adjust his game. I’d like to hear the argument in their own words. Until then, unfortunately you are boring me to tears, so I think I’m out for a little while.

So 2000 lakers with baby Kobe is goat team but when 2004 lakers with prime Kobe and 2 other top 75 players, , lost vs 0 top 75 players 4-1 , it’s a lesser choke job then 2011 lebron ?
Despite the mavs swept prime Kobe with a championship roaster the previous Round …and LeBron able to win 2 games too .

Crazy how the narrative of FG depends on which arguments he uses ….

The same Klay that the Warriors wouldn't trade for your Franchise Superstar Kevin Love fwiw.

So yes , stop using nonsense reasons when it’s clear u can’t win a bet with massive odds in your favour …

So just tell me why you consider a guy like 1981,archibald not similar then to dwade 2013 ?
Archibald nba2. Playoffs :15ppg/6A/1rbn
Dwade nba3 Playoffs: 15/4/4

I mean bird wasn’t even the best player during the final lol …
Talk about carrying scoring load …

Ps: wade was such a « franchise » player it was his last year being any kind of nba all teams in 2013 ….
1 year younger then archibald …

But I guess you think wade in 2014 was still consider a franchise player right ?

Like I said fine , but why say that when it’s not what we talking about .
I told you …..some argument you hold is fine when it’s vs 1 guy to be goat but nonsense to hold for arguing Lebron ain’t too 10 .
Another proof here .

Dumb question
Matt already answered but again 2013.
Ha yes with your famous 10 points differential factor needed that since you retracted because you couldn’t find 10 players I suppose ,

Lebron joined 2 franchise players to win his first titles, while Bird got a past-prime guy that wasn't a franchise player to win his first chips.

Bosh and Wade were reduced by Lebron, but their scoring increased a lot after he left in 2015, so they would've been even higher in 2014 or 2013.. Lebron also never won in 2014, so we're only talking about 2013.

Trying to argue that past-prime Tiny compares to Wade/Bosh is funny... Even prime Tiny doesn't compare to Wade... In the 1981 Finals, Tiny averaged 10 and 5 APG, compared to 20 and 5 for Wade in the 13' Finals.

You guys can pretend that you can't read, but I'll just repeat it.

Every single time that I've mentioned this issue, I've stated that it's about carrying the scoring load against TOP TEAMS.. The 2013 Heat didn't face a 50-win team until the Finals, and do you know why??.. It's because Lebron put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team, so he faced Monta Ellis and Luol Deng instead of Wade and Bosh..

No one cares about carrying the scoring load against Luol Deng's Bulls when you can't do it to Duncan's Spurs, or ANY top 5 SRS team or Finals teams.. It's a massive sample of 0 for 20 for something

Again, Lebron never carried the scoring load to victory on the championship level and never carried weak help over top teams (never beat a top 5 SRS team with weak scoring & efficiency from a sidekick).. This is a massive sample size of top 5 SRS teams and Finals teams that Lebron was incapable of carrying the scoring load against.

If you can't carry the scoring load in the Finals or against top teams, then you DEFINITELY aren't top 10... Carrying the scoring load against top teams is so important because it allows the team to win with less stars, while also allowing GM's some room to find good defenders.

Haha yes, it's happening.

They're devolving into your-turn-my turn

I knew they couldn't keep up the gimmick

They're done

Wow, this take is as bad as a FG take. You two will get along well.

Go look at some home and away assist numbers from the 80s and 90s.

So many other posts that I'm not going to read.

I did see FG using a snippet from Skip*. Seems like a reliable source.

* pretty pictures get my attention.

Hmm, so FG posts about Kenny Smith having LeBron out of his Top 10 (actually he had him in his Top 10, "most likely number 10").

Failed to bring up that he had Kobe outside his Top 10.

Dr J doesn't have LeBron in his Top 10. He also has Jordan outside his Top 5 and Kobe doesn't even get a mention.

Weird.

Btw, I'm glad you guys brought up the Eastern Playoffs from 2011-2016 because it's something that no one has looked at, including myself... But the more I look into it, the more I see that the Lebron and his teams didn't have to give a real effort or performance to win..

Specifically, in nearly half the series in the East from 2011-2016, Lebron beat teams by averaging 23-24 PPG and/or having a teammate basically match or lead him in scoring - this is nearly half the series... Lebron won the whole conference in 07', 13', and 16' with just 25 ppg and won the 14' ECF with 22.8.. Teammates routinely matched or led led him in scoring, or other series where he only needed 22-24 ppg to win.

So again, Lebron and his teams didn't have to give a true effort or performance, and do you know why??.. It's because Lebron put the top 3 players in the conference on 1 team, so he faced Monta Ellis and Luol Deng instead of Wade and Bosh..

Posting so I can quote this post later..

Lakers are going to win the championship this year.

They have held their last 7 opponents to 102 or under. They have the best defense in the league since mid January. Luka and LeBron make basketball easier for each other and already have significant synergy.

Then LeBron will play until his age 45 season, and win at least 2 more championships -- finishing with 7 rings.

Enlighten yourself my child:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qoRSTLIxgO...

This is the same guy that predicted the Pelicans were going to win the title last year and Zion was the next big thing.. And did you say Zion would win DPOY.. Was that you or Skip?

There's 2 things that make this unfair collusion okay:

1) Lakers could still lose because it's a Lebron team, so even though he pulled off another unprecedented collusion and has the most stacked team, he still mostly loses and has the worst title frequency ever - he's about as least-likely to win in this spot as anyone.. Perennial loser gonna perennial loser.. Cancer gonna cancer.. Have we seen it before? Yes.. Will we see it again??.. Time and time again..

2) Lebron is being "carried" by Luka compared to the rings that Jordan, Curry or Kobe won as 1st option.. This title would be as low quality and carried as the bubble chip for Lebron, and likely more carried.. Carried chips don't add to a goat case and nothing counts if you team-up with Magic or Bird (Luka).. It's obvious ring-chasing and virtually nothing compared to the rings won by Kobe, MJ or Curry as 1st option.

And stahp it with all this stuff that's below goat caliber adding to his case... i.e. getting swept in WCF doesn't add to a goat case, or losing in the Finals again - this would just CEMENT him as a guy who produces Finals losers and underachieves talented rosters... You can't lose to Tatum or Garland' when you have Luka... And everything else that he's done is also below goat caliber such as weak MVP quality (no titles for half of them and no scoring titles for any), while his team achievement is nowhere near goat caliber either (no dynasties, 3-peat, 70 wins, etc).

Many guys can win with prime Luka, and the Lakers would be stronger with 40-year Jordan due to better fit, clutch, half court chemistry and many intangibles.

How does this have anything to do with fake assists always being a problem?

I mean, I know you have issues understanding stuff, but come on!

Honeymoons are nice but they come to an end and that's what I sense.

They've won a few games but they're barely beating mediocre teams despite everything on their side, such as a league mandate to get Lebron #5, and everything geared in that direction..

I don't watch WWE so you guys enjoy, but I know a honeymoon when I see one.. I can also tell that the Lakers are playing harder than everyone because they're the only team that pulled off a historic heist and they're the only team that the media covers after games, win or lose.. It reminds me of the bubble where only the Lakers cared and everyone knew it was the Lakers ring.

The video shows quite clearly that today's game gives out fake assists, not previous eras

I don't know man. They literally had score keepers coming out and saying they were instructed to bump the stats in the 80s and 90s.

90s NBA was WWE. Jordan with all his retirements, players like Kobe refusing to play for the team that drafted him. And wrestlers literally doing crossover appearances on wrestling pay per views.

During the playoffs he didn’t had a great final series except the last game where he did 13p/12assit which seem decent for a PG.
The entire playoffs , wade and tiny got the same stats ….

And regardless , you know who didn’t had a great serie in the final but you keep quiet about it ? here is why the Celtic won , because of Larry bird not the mvp ?
Game 2: 8/18 .444 19 pts
Game 3: 3/11 .273 8 pts
Game 4 3/11 .273 8 pts
Game 5: 5/16 .313 12 pts

Can you imagine lebron winning with a performance like that and saying he carry the offence load what FG would respond ….

The reality is wade was on his last miles like Archibald .
And Parrish was a great addition and was beginning his prime !
Bosh was out 2 years later .