Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
32173 Replies
Plo did start in 1964 as a way to be in charge of all the land from river to sea
So I was wrong. A few years before 67 they did become a thing but did not try to overthr the Egyptian or Jordanian government in either territory and were focused on taking the land known as Israel
Ever hear of a political movement (and later officially a Political Party) called Fatah?
In April 1947, during the activity of the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine, the Arab Higher Committee articulated its demands in the solution for the Question of Palestine:
A complete cessation of the Jewish migration to Palestine.
A total halt to the sale of land to Jews
Cancelation of the British Mandate in Palestine and the Balfour Declaration.
Recognition of the right of Arabs to their land and recognition of the independence of Palestine as a sovereign state, like all other Arab states, with a promise to provide minority rights to the Jews according to the rules of Democracy.[13]
So 1947 the Palestinian cause was outlawing immigration of Jews, making it illegal to sell land to jews, but pinky promise that the jews that were there could stay and have rights
So if that's what you mean by Palestinian cause prior to the state if Israel, you won. Ethnic cleansing was the cause
From 1949-1964 there was little to no cause. They would have been happy if the West bank became part of Jordan,.. because it did
Awful biased factually inaccurate source but even still, if it is true, he phrased a ridiculous question and was given a ridiculous answer that even his boss saw as a joke, but when you have an agenda, you wouldnt
Ah, the good old mediabiasfactcheck.
When you get shown evidence that you were lying blame the source and accuse them of bias.
So predictable.
So 1947 the Palestinian cause was outlawing immigration of Jews, making it illegal to sell land to jews, but pinky promise that the jews that were there could stay and have rights
So if that's what you mean by Palestinian cause prior to the state if Israel, you won. Ethnic cleansing was the cause
From 1949-1964 there was little to no cause. They would have been happy if the West bank became part of Jordan,.. because it did
Mmmm, not quite. I mean the above is partially true, in that the Arab Committee’s demands were for the British to stop Jewish immigration and to halt the sale of land to Zionists. Keep in mind that this is still Mandatory Palestine; demanding something from the governing body isn’t exactly the same as outlawing it, because they didn’t have the power to enact law to begin with.
Also, you missed the fact that they were calling for the exact same things 35 years earlier.
Sure
A minority movement that started around 1960?
Okay I checked 1959
So yes there were some who wanted a state
But 700000 Palestinians became Jordanian citizens in the early 50s and wanted that
In fact wiki says that Jordan continued to pay salaries of civil servants in the West bank after 1967 .. because they were Jordanian citizens and the king eventually hoped they would regain control.
Here's the point you are missing
The cause was about excluding jews. While some may have wanted their own state, they just wanted to be Arabs in an Arab state and didn't want jews to have a place in the region
After Jordan and Egypt made friends with Israel, well now they need a state!! Jordan and Egypt were traitors!
Ah, the good old mediabiasfactcheck.
When you get shown evidence that you were lying blame the source and accuse them of bias.
So predictable.
That's the only source that days he says that
But I Also clearly can see if he said it he was joking
And he was asked a ridiculous leading biased question so answered in kind
And if all of that is true, it is still misleading to say he called himself the father of terrorism
Sure
A minority movement that started around 1960?
Okay I checked 1959
So yes there were some who wanted a state
Right, and the name literally stands for Palestinian National Liberation Movement.
The first recognition of this movement is in 1959, so I don’t quite understand how you can claim that there was no such thing as a Palestinian National movement or cause prior to 1967.
Here's the point you are missing
The cause was about excluding jews. While some may have wanted their own state, they just wanted to be Arabs in an Arab state and didn't want jews to have a place in the region
After Jordan and Egypt made friends with Israel, well now they need a state!! Jordan and Egypt were traitors!
Imagine that, Arabs wanting to be Arabs in an Arab state. Ridiculous of them to want that.
Listen, I’m not about to praise the people who advocated for the halt in Jewish immigration or sale of land to Zionists. But given that Zionism was a self-admittedly colonial movement and on the rise can we really blame them for not wanting to be colonized?
Imagine that, Arabs wanting to be Arabs in an Arab state. Ridiculous of them to want that.
? I imagine that and I open my eyes and I see there are many countries which are arab-majority, Arab+led, with Arab supremacy clauses (religion often, ethnicity sometimes) in their rules.
A lot of countries. One is right there in the area we discuss and it's called Jordan.
If you are a middle eastern Arab who wants to live among people with your own ethnicity, culture, religion, and behavioral attitudes, you have Jordan and other countries to live in.
Why the actual **** should you deserve even more space given you were conquered by superior forces and you only have your own country because of the generosity of militarily superior people who could have genocided all your ancestors (as it is normal historically when someone conquers you, and as your Arab ancestors did to some local populations as well) at any time with ease? Be grateful forever that you are alive because the British allowed you to after having conquered you as your ancestors were weak as ****, and remember every day you live on this planet is on borrowed time and only happens because other people from elsewhere who at any time could have wiped you off the face of earth, allowed you to keep existing because of their generosity.
So 1947 the Palestinian cause was outlawing immigration of Jews, making it illegal to sell land to jews, but pinky promise that the jews that were there could stay and have rights
So if that's what you mean by Palestinian cause prior to the state if Israel, you won. Ethnic cleansing was the cause
From 1949-1964 there was little to no cause. They would have been happy if the West bank became part of Jordan,.. because it did
outlawing immigration is not ethnic cleansing.
given the atrocities these immigrants immediately wrought on the native population, it appears prescient. but in fact, these leaders probably had read the literature from people like Jabotinsky and Herzl and Balfour and Shaftesbury which explained exactly what the intentions were of the violent settlers.
That's the only source that days he says that
But I Also clearly can see if he said it he was joking
And he was asked a ridiculous leading biased question so answered in kind
And if all of that is true, it is still misleading to say he called himself the father of terrorism
He belonged to a terrorist organisation which engaged in massacres of civilians, who went on to become Prime Minister. So the question seems a reasonable one to ask.
But instead of denying it he answered in the affirmative. Was he joking? Who knows. The Israeli ambassador who was told about it didn't seem to think so.
? I imagine that and I open my eyes and I see there are many countries which are arab-majority, Arab+led, with Arab supremacy clauses (religion often, ethnicity sometimes) in their rules.
A lot of countries. One is right there in the area we discuss and it's called Jordan.
If you are a middle eastern Arab who wants to live among people with your own ethnicity, culture, religion, and behavioral attitudes, you have Jordan and other countries to live in.
Why the actual **** should you deserve even mor
Are you okay?
I dunno maybe they felt like that would deserve that and didn’t want to be colonized because ITS THEIR ****ING COUNTRY
Matter of fact can we think of one place in the world that wanted to be colonized?
Here’s an idea let’s move 58m people to recolonize Italy. How the **** would you feel about that now?
Are you okay?
I dunno maybe they felt like that would deserve that and didn’t want to be colonized because ITS THEIR ****ING COUNTRY
Matter of fact can we think of one place in the world that wanted to be colonized?
Here’s an idea let’s move 58m people to recolonize Italy. How the **** would you feel about that now?
it isn't "their country". it wasn't for many centuries. they didn't own the place. before the British, the Turks ruled over them.
Palestine doesn't exist, it's a made up geographical units. Arabs exist in that vague area and have existed for a while and there are plenty of Arab countries thanks to western generositt in allowing them to exist.
if you are an Arab in that area and want to live in that area move to an Arab country and stop ****ing complain.
Italy was colonized many times. we got the french in the 18th century, the Spanish before them, the normans in Sicily, and countless others after the fall of the western Roman empire.
what you can keep is yours. what others stronger than you take is theirs. if you survive you deserve to live. if you dont, you don't.
nobody owes you ****ing anything ever and be thankful you exist even when people stronger than you had a chance to wipe you out.
and it's time those people living in Gaza and the WB understand we aren't playing games anymore
Bro you have some serious issues, gl with that
Read the entire conversation between me and Mets before you interject and have a meltdown over one sentence taken out of context
Whether anyone likes it or not nearly 80% of the people that lived in what is present day Israel & OPT in the late 19th & early 20th century were Muslim. They may have been occupied and governed by Ottomans and British, but that doesn’t make the home that they lived in any less their own. It is very clear based on the rise in Zionism and their actions to counter it that they did not want to be colonized and together they made demands to prevent that from happening.
That is called self determination. And despite being governed by an occupier, despite not having your own sovereignty, it is a clear sign of people who call a place their own.
You can’t bomb that
Luciom will return to us in a week.
Resistance fighters are all over the streets celebrating. Israelis are fuming on social media. the only thing that Israel and the USA accomplished was mass murder of civilians.
nah, cope. almost a total military victory for israel and the mighty and brave boys & girls of the IDF:
- return of hostages
- devastation of hamas: including the permanent removal of the entire leadership, and the main planners and primary actors of the oct 7 rapes and murders
- hezbollah: lol
- bonus side quest: removal of assad
thats not the sense I get from Israeli media and social media. they are absolutely apoplectic.
but that's because musk feeds you a diet of fringe extreme right wing israelis who want to do an IRL genocide - because it makes you click
I'm quite dismayed that Israel are releasing 2000 terrorists but it's their affair. I think they're really playing with fire on this even if I understand their desire to ensure the hostages safe return.
I'm quite dismayed that Israel are releasing 2000 terrorists but it's their affair. I think they're really playing with fire on this even if I understand their desire to ensure the hostages safe return.
It may not hold but I'm very pleased to see the ceasefire. I doubt many of those 2000 were held with judtification but it was never going to be 'once and for all' and sadly there's not going to be any shortage of potential terrorists in the future. Netanyahu trying to sell the ceasefire as his deep concern for the hostages is sick but it's very good to see some finally get back home.
Hopefully this time but even if not, eventually miltary action has to end and politics resume. I dont see how any of the pro netanyahu crowd who justified it as the 'end justify the means' will see this horrow show as having achieved their ends but I suppose they will somehow.
Hamas has announced it will release Romi Gonen, Emily Damari, and Doron Steinbrecher as the first group of hostages under the framework agreement. All three women were abducted on October 7:
Romi Gonen, 23, was taken from the Nova music festival after being shot in the hand. Released hostages previously reported she was alive but needed urgent medical care for her hand injury.
Emily Damari, 28, was abducted from her Kfar Aza apartment after being shot in the hand and suffering shrapnel wounds to her leg. The British-Israeli national was reportedly blindfolded and driven to Gaza in her own car.
Doron Steinbrecher, 31, was taken from her Kfar Aza apartment after sending a final voice message to friends saying "They've arrived, they have me." The veterinary nurse was alone in her apartment when Hamas terrorists invaded the kibbutz. - Alex Salvi, Newsmax
