Cheating In The Main Event? Was Tamayo's WSOP ME Win Unethical?
Doug Polk has released a video showing Tamayo's rail clearly using a laptop for assistance. You can also see Joe McKeeha
I’m just a babbling rec player whose earnings barely amount to minimum wage and haven’t played in a few years, but this sort of stuff makes me unlikely to want to return to the game.
Poker is an individual sport not a team sport. if an individual uses a laptop by himself to gain some advantage that is clearly frown upon and prohibited. Then why should team mates on the rail be allowed to run some poker software, communicate with the player on the table what to do. Huh? What about if I assemble a team of poker experts on the rail, analyse the game of my opponent and tell me what to do next? Hmm. The use of external devices should be outright prohibited. Communication of any kind should be prohibited. Save poker.
Poker is an individual sport not a team sport. if an individual uses a laptop by himself to gain some advantage that is clearly frown upon and prohibited. Then why should team mates on the rail be allowed to run some poker software, communicate with the player on the table what to do. Huh? What about if I assemble a team of poker experts on the rail, analyse the game of my opponent and tell me what to do next? Hmm. The use of external devices should be outright prohibited. Communication of any k
Have you watched any of the WSOP ME final tables since at least (actually longer, Chan was advising Moneymaker) IIRC when they started the Nov 9.
Right or wrong, a rail team, including passing delayed hand history information, has become standard. I fully expect computers (off rail at least) were being used for years. The difference was a) this was beyond blatant, b) done with computer physically on the rail and c)likely violated the spirit if not the letter (the letter IMO) of the rules.
Had a penalty been requested by an oposing player (since this was happening even prior to HU), I wonder how WSOP would have handled it. Even wo a player protest, I believe they should have stepped in (even if informally).
It is a tough nut to crack really. They want a live final table on broadcast /stream. They want hold cards shown (thus a delay). WSOP wants a live rail. They want players to interact with their rail (at least to some degreee). So how do you achieve all of those in the current world where communication is os easy?
Even if you ban player electronics (ME is big enough you certainly could do this. At least at some point in the tournament if not the entire tournament. But most tournaments such a ban would not work), you can have rail to player communication. Banning electronics from rail is much more difficult within current room set up and design.
Poker is an individual sport not a team sport. if an individual uses a laptop by himself to gain some advantage that is clearly frown upon and prohibited. Then why should team mates on the rail be allowed to run some poker software, communicate with the player on the table what to do. Huh? What about if I assemble a team of poker experts on the rail, analyse the game of my opponent and tell me what to do next? Hmm. The use of external devices should be outright prohibited. Communication of any k
This is right. Its really not difficult. The rule is no RTA and having a flipping laptop and guys providing it is just that. Pretty weak of WSOP to say or do nothing considering their token pre tournament announcements. He didnt even attempt to hide it. Its a shame the other guy didnt say anything at the time but understandable i guess as he, like most would be, likely felt he was living in a parallel universe at the time. I expect a new, more specific rule for next year will be introduced.
Have you watched any of the WSOP ME final tables since at least (actually longer, Chan was advising Moneymaker) IIRC when they started the Nov 9.
Right or wrong, a rail team, including passing delayed hand history information, has become standard. I fully expect computers (off rail at least) were being used for years. The difference was a) this was beyond blatant, b) done with computer physically on the rail and c)likely violated the spirit if not the letter (the letter IMO) of the rules.
Had a p
I'm new to poker and was listening to the Jungelman podcast - so from what I've gathered, 1 player in 10,000 used a laptop between hands and won the tourney, yet this was considered a "small advantage" by the coach Dominik Nitsch? Or am I missing something
Will we see thousands of laptops at the WSOP next year as everyone runs to to look at laptops between hands?.. Do they do this in chess? Are players allowed to consult laptops between moves?... The idea of consulting a laptop between hands violates the spirit of the game because an objective of any poker game is to play as many hands as possible so everyone can realize their edge - that's how the home game that I play in works.
And poker has typically been a sport with relatively little coaching while the game is going on, but if people are consulting laptops between hands, then it becomes a sport with the most frequent coaching and "timeouts" if you will.. Frequent coaching in poker is counter-intuitive because poker is a mind game, so there's a certain amount of self-coaching expected... It sure would be cool if they let you consult a laptop between blackjack hands.
i would expect a ruling to be announced some time around March-May 2025 ahead of the next WSOP. if not, i think everyone should be bringing a laptop with sims to the next event and get it changed for good.
I'm new to poker and was listening to the Jungelman podcast - so from what I've gathered, 1 player in 10,000 used a laptop between hands and won the tourney, yet this was considered a "small advantage" by the coach Dominik Nitsch? Or am I missing something
Will we see thousands of laptops at the WSOP next year as everyone runs to to look at laptops between hands?.. Do they do this in chess? Are players allowed to consult laptops between moves?... The idea of consulting a laptop between hands v
"I'm new to poker "
sure
i would expect a ruling to be announced some time around March-May 2025 ahead of the next WSOP. if not, i think everyone should be bringing a laptop with sims to the next event and get it changed for good.
They could have special side tables for the laptops, no need to run to the rail. Buddies could post the right GTO-exploitive plays from there. Nine side tables for every table, needs some organizing. Maybe bring the laptops to the actual poker table, exchange the chips for virtual, for saving space.
Not sure I'm kidding.
They could have special side tables for the laptops, no need to run to the rail. Buddies could post the right GTO-exploitive plays from there. Nine side tables for every table, needs some organizing. Maybe bring the laptops to the actual poker table, exchange the chips for virtual, for saving space.
Not sure I'm kidding.
Instead of playing actual poker to determine a winner, we can just have a 'tech' contest to determine it. Whoever is the most tech savvy and has the best computer programming skills, wins. Nice and simple. That will bring in a lot of the blue collar workers looking to play a tournament here and there with their hard earned money. The over 50 crowd will love it too, so it is a win win for everyone.
Well that's a start.
I feel like "Failure to adhere to this rule will result in a penalty for the player and removal from the rail for the spectator." is a bit lenient. A slap on the wrist at first and then DQ?
I think it should be instant DQ from that event if any of those above rules are broken, and if it happens a 2nd time at another event then instant ban from all of these events.
It should be called the Tamayo rule for sure, there were other rules named after people wasn't there. Bulllldozzzzer!
As predicted by many including myself, new rules in place. Agree we should derisively call these the Tamayo rules.
Well that's a start.
I feel like "Failure to adhere to this rule will result in a penalty for the player and removal from the rail for the spectator." is a bit lenient. A slap on the wrist at first and then DQ?
I think it should be instant DQ from that event if any of those above rules are broken, and if it happens a 2nd time at another event then instant ban from all of these events.
I think it’s just to give them the flexibility to judge all infractions on a case by case basis.
I don’t know how they’re going to enforce this with players and spectators. Going to be a lot of shenanigans and conflicts with security on this one.
But I don’t have a better solution so I guess we’ll see what happens.
Going to be hard to keep players from finding out about the hands on the delayed live stream. But I guess the ban on coaching from the rail would prevent them. Probably in practice their friends can tell them about hands during the breaks.
Not cheating but man it looks very uninviting to recreationals
Blame people like those involved. They're the exact individuals that have made poker miserable in the first place.
Also, they're the same types who'd cheat online and say "it's available to all involved anyway. If you're not taking advantage of it only you're to blame "
