GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
I 1000% agree with Arenas that Wemby should train with Dirk this summer and make 250 turnarounds per day.. Wemby should actually have a better turnaround than MJ - let that sink in - Wemby should have the greatest turnaround ever - he doesn't need a skyhook like Kareem because he's 7'5" and also has video game hands instead of Kareem's super-grip skyhook hands, so a turnaround makes more sense... Plus Wemby already has the form down - he just needs repetition, mastery and polish.
Tbh, 70's Kareem sweeps this NY team... All the issues Wemby is having - Kareem didn't have them.. He had the polish, post game, and GO-TO MOVES that Wemby lacks
Wemby definitely would've been a 4 back in the day
I mean, they had Rasho Neterovic next to Duncan instead of starting him at the 5 ffs
Would've been a supersized KG basically
Everyone thinks it's over. Could it just be getting started? Knicks probably win but i could see wemby in 7.
When LeBron teamed up with Wade, he was 25 and had one Finals appearance, which was more than MJ at the same age. So, he was winning that game at that point and if he got a Pippen, would have killed it.
Spurs are still a chance because they have Wemby if he GOATs it up. Spurs are still positive in the +/- when he's on the floor.
Wemby is a small forward who jumps center, averages 11 rebounds, 3.5 blocks, guards the 3-point line, has a C next to his name but isn't checking any Shaqs or Embiid's in the post, freelances around the court and does a lot of help out blocks, he has a mind for titling which is big news, he's a "slash" player he ain't no pivot, making his O/U for titles 2, will probably have trouble getting 600 games in like most of the guys in his height range, unreal phenom and GOAT bid is two different things separated by at the very least ten seasons of All-Star play.
If the Spurs are as good as i think they are does it matter where they play? I know knicks gonna have the crowd going crazy. But the series really comes down to if the spurs hit their 3's. And maybe Towns and Bridges coming back to reality. As they looked like super hero's in the last game.
No disrespect to the knicks as they have alot of veterans and maybe this is their time. Just saying if the spurs play their best game they still in it.
If ever a team defies the odds could it be this time?
I mean the spurs get swept? Really? This knicks team is crazy though their all playing at a super human leve.l all their players are playing their best.
If the Spurs are as good as i think they are does it matter where they play? I know knicks gonna have the crowd going crazy. But the series really comes down to if the spurs hit their 3's. And maybe Towns and Bridges coming back to reality. As they looked like super hero's in the last game. No disrespect to the knicks as they have alot of veterans and maybe this is their time.
Brunson is on empty... I don't think his play will improve... So the Spurs could conceivably wear down the Knicks, which they started to do in the 4th quarter of the last game... Maybe this carries over to Game 3.. Certainly if the Spurs somehow win Game 3 (which I think is nearly impossible), then the series should go 7... It means that Wemby started dominating or something and changed the series.. But this just seems highly unlikely on the road in NY.. NY is a team of hungry veterans - I can't see them choking this away.
You're right in saying that the Spurs have a better roster, but they lack experience, poise, and Wemby simply isn't quite there yet imo... He's as close as you can be, but not quite there... He'll be there next year... He'll be able to get clutch buckets with ease next year.
I think the Spurs get swept in this series, similar to young Shaq or Lebron.. I hope this isn't the case (because this hurts half of my theory), but it's probably the case.
05' HUGHES...... 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
90' PIPPEN........ 16.3 PER... 0.087 WS/48... 3.0 VORP... 1.8 BPM... 16/6/5.... No All-D
05' HUGHES...... 21.6 PER... 0.157 WS/48... 3.7 VORP... 4.3 BPM... 22/6/5.... 1st Team All-D
93' PIPPEN........ 19.2 PER... 0.132 WS/48... 4.7 VORP... 4.0 BPM... 19/8/6.... 1st Team All-D
And Bosh... It's the first time that 3 offense-carrying superstars from 3 different teams joined 1 team - it's the most help ever according to professional statisticians like 538.
"The Decision" proved that the 07' run was a fluke and that Lebron actually COULDN'T make the Finals - he had to cheat to make the Finals, which any Tom, Dick, and Harry can do (all-star team strategy) - teaming up is the definition of NOT being able to make it normally.
Since Lebron couldn't make the Finals and win the conference, he put the top 3 scorers in the conference on 1 team - it's amazing he got credit for winning the conference after that... Imagine if Jokic teamed up with SGA and KAT, yet everyone was like "can you believe they made the Finals again?.. Goat stuff"... Yet that's how Lebron is treated..
It's statistical fact that Lebron received a player that was better than 1990 or 1993 Pippen on both sides of the ball, but "bron-ball" destroyed him just like it destroyed Love, Bosh, Westbrook, Ingram, Reaves and many more.. See the stats in the previous post above.
Furthermore, even after Lebron got Wade and Bosh, he didn't "kill it" like you claim, since he had the goat choke and record loss, which bookended a win over babies and teammate bailout.. This is a joke compared to MJ, Curry, Kobe, Duncan, and many more.
Spurs are still a chance because they have Wemby if he GOATs it up. Spurs are still positive in the +/- when he's on the floor.
The Spurs are positive with Wemby, except in clutch-time, where Wemby chokes.. I don't knock him for it because he isn't choking anywhere NEAR as bad as 07' Lebron, who played worse than anyone ever has... No one ever shot 35% with 6 TO's for a series, except Lebron in the 07' Finals, who was a massive negative... And he repeated this performance against the 08' Celtics, so he simply wasn't capable of competing viably against championship comp at that time..
Accordingly, it's fraud that Wemby is getting a lot of criticism when Lebron was 10 times worse in the 07' Finals but gets lauded as unstoppable... Lebron wasn't the clearly best player until 2012 to 2014... Then Curry took over, and then other guys like Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, SGA, and Wemby, in that order... Carry on..
Brunson won't improve on 34% shooting from the field in the first 2 games????
You could get tons of people to take you up on such a bet, but your word is meaningless. You'll flip flop after Game 3, saying you expected Brunson to shoot so well.
Jordan never beat a team as good as the 25-26 OKC Thunder in a series.
I don't think that many people even watched the 2007 finals. Sopranos finale was same night as game 2 and once SA got up 2-0 it was a wrap
Atleast Tony didn't have to live to see LeBron with the 43% TS
just looked this up, Duncan should've won MVP this series clearly
I don't think that many people even watched the 2007 finals. Sopranos finale was same night as game 2 and once SA got up 2-0 it was a wrap
Atleast Tony didn't have to live to see LeBron with the 43% TS
just looked this up, Duncan should've won MVP this series clearly
Exactly.
it's fraud that Wemby is getting a lot of criticism when Lebron was 10 times worse in the 07' Finals but gets lauded as unstoppable... Lebron was equally bad against the 08' Celtics and then meltdowns from 09-11', so he wasn't the best player until 2012 to 2014... Then Curry took over, and then other guys like Kawhi, Giannis, Jokic, SGA, and Wemby, in that order... Carry on..
It's been a fairytale run so far, so this is actually the first time the Knicks faced pressure in these playoffs.
That stat they just quoted on Wemby, Knicks shooting 18 points lower with him on the court for the series, is the kind of thing that only Wemby types, Chamberlain types can do. Kareem, Olajuwon, etc. If such a player is also a great offensive player, their influence on the game just can't be matched by Jordan or LeBron types.
With Chamberlain, that influence was for virtually every minute of the season. He was always on the court. It would be great to see such stats for shot blockers historically.
Dual threat offense and defense big men are still have the greatest influence on the game. At least until someone starts shooting 70% from 3 with high volume.
Post play is a big enough aspect of basketball that the GOAT must have all-time ability with his back to the defender (post game).
Jumpshooting is also a huge aspect of the game, so the GOAT must be an all-time jumpshooter as well.
Jordan was goat-level in both areas, since he was the goat 2-point jumpshooter and the goat post wing player... Otoh, Lebron isn't goat-level at anything except stiff-arm driving.. He's never had a top 25 season in any category (ppg, rpg, apg, spg, bpg).... And he doesn't rank top 10 all-time in these categories either except 8th in ppg.
That stat they just quoted on Wemby, Knicks shooting 18 points lower with him on the court for the series, is the kind of thing that only Wemby types, Chamberlain types can do. Kareem, Olajuwon, etc. If such a player is also a great offensive player, their influence on the game just can't be matched by Jordan or LeBron types. With Chamberlain, that influence was for virtually
^^^ So that would work in the 60's or 70's when MVP's didn't have to be dominant offensive players and could be primarily defensive players.
But once the 3-point line was instituted, 47 of 47 MVP's have been thoroughly dominant offensive players.. The institution of the 3-point line essentially began offensive basketball.
In offensive basketball (modern era), all the dynasties require dominant or generational offensive players (Magic, Bird, MJ, Duncan, Curry) - these guys massively spike their team's offense when they're on the floor.. Unfortunately Wemby doesn't increase the offense much, if any... That's because it's always going to be suboptimal to have the 7th-best step-backer on the court taking the most step-backs, aka Wemby needs to get on the post
Btw, it's usually impossible to maintain the same defensive rating when the offense massively spikes, so that's why you actually see slight declines in team defense when offensive juggernauts like Curry, Lebron, MJ and others take the floor... Essentially, defensive fundamentals give way to offensive momentum.
32/8/6 on 11/18 shooting in a functional elimination game.
If you guys simply followed my theory, you would know with statistical certainty that this series is going 7 games.
Remember that there's never been a primary ballhandler that was the 1st option for the best basketball, aka dynasty (3 in 5) or dominant title run (1 loss average per round, 4 losses max)...
Accordingly, the Knicks - led by primary ballhandler Brunson - were going to lose at least 3 games in this series to satisfy the theory, which is backed by a substantial sample size
Carry on
^^^ Basically Jordan's career playoff average, except 1.5 ppg less
So your idea of Wemby's best was Jordan's standard and norm
Jordan did this stuff EVERY night, and he was also the closer every night
Michael Jordan had at least 32 points, 8 rebounds and 6 assists on 61% shooting on 3 occasions in the playoffs.
3 times in 179 tries.
